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On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Ophelia
my jaw is still one the floor that some people don't want to "pay" for other people's medical insurance.
next time you go to the doctor, I'd like a thank you card if you are with Emblemhealth, cuz I just helped you with your payment.
me too..especially the people who are currently not working..whatever the reason. I don't care that your DH pays into his company's plan..you are still damn lucky to get that insurance. If everyone thought how you did you AND your DC would be uninsured...the irony..
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Posted 10/18/11 9:57 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Ophelia
my jaw is still one the floor that some people don't want to "pay" for other people's medical insurance.
next time you go to the doctor, I'd like a thank you card if you are with Emblemhealth, cuz I just helped you with your payment.
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| Posted 10/18/11 9:57 AM |
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BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
Name:
Mrs. B
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
The "me, me, me" mentality on this thread is disgusting and sad.
Shame on all of you who feel not everyone deserves healthcare coverage, only those who contribute or have jobs.
I hope the reality door slams you on your asss.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:00 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by DiamondGirl
Posted by Ophelia
my jaw is still one the floor that some people don't want to "pay" for other people's medical insurance.
next time you go to the doctor, I'd like a thank you card if you are with Emblemhealth, cuz I just helped you with your payment.
me too..especially the people who are currently not working..whatever the reason. I don't care that your DH pays into his company's plan..you are still damn lucky to get that insurance. If everyone thought how you did you AND your DC would be uninsured...the irony..
I'm amazed by it. Not in a good way. And for me personally I make no distinction between the "out of work guy" and the "homeless drug addict". I subscribe to the crazy notion that:
1) addiction is an ILLNESS, same as cancer, diabetes. Not a character flaw.
2) BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, I or someone I love with all my heart, could BE that homeless drug addict
3) There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
Bllurrrrggghhh. 
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:02 AM |
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BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
Name:
Mrs. B
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
The thing I don't understand is the complaint that there's "no cohesive message" kwim? Seems pretty cohesive to me. "The system is FOCKED."
The "system" that told us the banks were too big to let fail. The system that gave financial institutions FREE MONEY FROM YOUR POCKET as life support, then stood by and smiled as those institutions fired by the thousands, then handed top execs 8 figure bonuses. 8 figure bonuses after bringing our economy to a near vegetative state. The SYSTEM that has SOCIALIZED LOSSES and PRIVATIZED GAINS. No flucking bueno.
We can poo-poo the protest and the protestors all we want but I am flat-out FLABBERGASTED at some of the interpretations of this movement flying around the web and the offline world. They range from simplistic at best to ignorant at worst with a healthy dose of arrogance mixed in.
I don't understand how people don't see this??? How can people argue this???
Everyone posting on these threads should be scared for their fututre. I don't give a flying fluck what your bank accounts and pension funds look like now.
None of it is guaranteed and can all be gone tomorrow...wake up people!!
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:05 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
I'm amazed by it. Not in a good way. And for me personally I make no distinction between the "out of work guy" and the "homeless drug addict". I subscribe to the crazy notion that:
1) addiction is an ILLNESS, same as cancer, diabetes. Not a character flaw.
2) BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, I or someone I love with all my heart, could BE that homeless drug addict
3) There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:06 AM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
3) There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
Bllurrrrggghhh.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:13 AM |
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buttercup
St. Jude pray for us...
Member since 1/11 2951 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
This right here should sum up the whole thread.. I stayed out of the whole time, because I am not as eloquent as some your wonderful ladies, but what you wrote right here, should be the bottom line of this  
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:16 AM |
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rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
Name:
Jeannie
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
3) There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
Bllurrrrggghhh.
Exactly. Spot on. Thank you.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:16 AM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by colette
I'm amazed by it. Not in a good way. And for me personally I make no distinction between the "out of work guy" and the "homeless drug addict". I subscribe to the crazy notion that:
1) addiction is an ILLNESS, same as cancer, diabetes. Not a character flaw.
2) BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, I or someone I love with all my heart, could BE that homeless drug addict
3) There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:25 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
3) There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
Bllurrrrggghhh.
This.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:26 AM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
I'm going to be the billionth poster to wholeheartedly agree with this.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:28 AM |
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mamabear
LIF Adult
Member since 3/08 4539 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by colette
Posted by DiamondGirl
Posted by Ophelia
my jaw is still one the floor that some people don't want to "pay" for other people's medical insurance.
next time you go to the doctor, I'd like a thank you card if you are with Emblemhealth, cuz I just helped you with your payment.
me too..especially the people who are currently not working..whatever the reason. I don't care that your DH pays into his company's plan..you are still damn lucky to get that insurance. If everyone thought how you did you AND your DC would be uninsured...the irony..
I'm amazed by it. Not in a good way. And for me personally I make no distinction between the "out of work guy" and the "homeless drug addict". I subscribe to the crazy notion that:
1) addiction is an ILLNESS, same as cancer, diabetes. Not a character flaw.
2) BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, I or someone I love with all my heart, could BE that homeless drug addict
3) There is a level of depravity that, as a society, we are dangerously close to entering and that is NOT ok. How we treat the most VULNERABLE (the illegals, the addicts, the animals, the children, the sick and the elderly) is WHO WE ARE.
Bllurrrrggghhh.
I agree, fully and completely, that we are getting more and more messed up, and can't seem to figure out a way to fix things. I think part of the reason is that so many are out for themselves, and many have to be because if you're not, it seems nobody else is looking out for you. The world is getting scarier and scarier, and there are no guarantees, and so many people have stopped caring about others.
People think the poor person who is unemployed is either lazy or made bad decisions, perhaps when they were a 20 year old kid/young adult, and now should pay for those mistakes. People think this person was greedy or lazy, so tough luck. For the most part, these people are not lazy. They had bad luck, or made a few bad choices along the way, which they shouldn't have to pay for their whole lives. There should be a way to recover from bad choices. (which, btw, can be paying to go to harvard or something thinking that will get you ahead in life, since your whole young life people preached to you to do your best and get the best education possible.)
Then people see the well-to-do person, and think they are greedy and should give up their money to people truly in need. In reality, many people who seem well-to-do are barely keeping it together. I make decent money, and know many people who do, and still live quite close to paycheck to paycheck to pay for daycare, a home (with a very reasonable mortgage), quality food, transportation to get to/from my job, clothes, etc. I rarely go out to eat. When I was young and single, yes, I went out to eat with friends quite a bit. Now, very very rarely. A diner for breakfast maybe once a month, and a dinner out maybe 3 times per year. I barely shop for myself, and when I do, I don't shop name brands. Yet, nearly every day I hear from people in my industry that if you want to be really successful, you need to dress the part--you need the fancy watches, designer clothe, tailored just perfectly, designer bags, to have your nails done, nice jewelry, etc. I don't buy into it--not anymore. but I did when I started out.
I do think anyone making an insane amount of money should be required to contribute more. I'm not talking about people with good jobs and paychecks--i mean those like the 90million ceo, or actors/actresses who make buckets and buckets of money, enough so that for generations, none of their descendents will have to work--the trust fund babies. Nobody needs 90 million dollars, when others can't feed their babies, or get treated for a horrible illness.
i do believe that everyone who can, should contribute in one way or another to society. i don't believe hand outs should be given to lazy people who just dont want to work. but- i believe those are very few cases, and most people just need guidance as to how they can contribute. i think something needs to be done for childcare. women with young children are in a bind because daycare is so expensive, and many can't earn enough to even cover day care. maybe if there was free or cheap daycare, there would be more jobs, and more people would be able to work. if you are a homeless drug addict, you should be given assistance to get help and get back on your feet. if you lose your job, you should receive assistance provided you are pursuing employment and possibly getting training in another field/industry if the one you have experience in is slow at the time. If you are disabled, you should receive assistance and possibly help finding a way if you can work/contribute in a way you are not familiar with. People need to see the big picture. Life is long and short all at the same time.
Assistance needs to be monitored. I know someone who went on disability at a relatively young age. Let me tell you, he is fine. At least to outsiders. Maybe he can't do what he once did, but there are still plenty of things he can do. He shouldn't sit at home collecting money for nothing, but he shouldn't be forced to work like a dog and risk hurting himself just to make ends meet. My dad was a teacher. he had a student once whose goal was to be on welfare because his father was, and he got to hang out all day and get paid for it. That shouldn't be the case. But it also shouldn't be the case that someone went to school, busted their butt for years, and then got cancer, couldn't work and went bankrupt. and it shouldn't be the case that someone who worked hard all their life and had a decent job suddenly gets laid off because of the economy, and they lose their house, med insurance, and savings, and cant get another job because the industry they worked in is not hiring, and they have no other skills, and no money to put into acquiring new skills/training. Most people want to work and contribute. We need to figure out a way to get people working and get their basic needs met.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:52 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
We're not on the same page because to me health coverage is not a "right". Health coverage is a BENEFIT. It's part of a BENEFITS package through whoever you work for. Your employer pays into these benefits. As an employee you pay into these benefits. As an employee you pay even more into these benefits to cover your children, spouse, etc. On top of that when it comes time to claim these medical benefits you have to make co-pays, pay thousands in deductibles, meet coinsurance requirements that amount to even more thousands. It's a fortune out of pocket to have health benefits.
And I may be "jobless" but I don't consider my DH's money HIS money. He works to provide for OUR family. It's OUR money. And we use OUR money to pay into OUR health benefits.
So what I do NOT understand is how anyone expects to provide health coverage to the thousands or even millions of people out there with no ability to pay into the insurance to begin with. Who pays for that?? Who absorbs that cost??
I don't see how health insurance is different than an other form of insurance.
If you get in a car accident and you don't pay to be insured and have coverage, you don't get any benefits when you smack up your car.
When you die, if you didn't pay into a life insurance policy your family doesn't get anything.
If you're sick and don't have health coverage it's not that you can't necessarily be treated, it will just cost you and arm and a leg.
My point is that health insurance, like any insurance, is a benefit that is paid into and to just say that EVERYONE should have health coverage means that someone has to absorb that cost. I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
To cover EVERYONE means society as a whole will have to pay MORE in taxes, it means the health insurance companies will bill things at an even HIGHER rate to offset the costs which of course means those paying into insurance will have even higher premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and coinsurance.
I'm sorry if some of you don't agree. Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion. I'm looking at the healthcare system, which by NO means am I an expert on, from a purely LOGICAL, FINANCIAL standpoint. And logically, I simply don't see how we as a country can offer health benefits to EVERYONE regardless of circumstance when healthcare costs are outrageous on EVERY level. If it can be done somehow then wonderful. That's great! I just don't see it logically happening because at the end of the day even though you're all preaching to me from high up on your soap box nobody really wants to (or can even afford) to be taxed anymore then they already are.
And if there was an easy answer or any easy solution there wouldn't be the healthcare debate that exists today in this country. Clearly, it's easier said then done.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I am not afraid to speak my mind even if it's not the popular opinion. I don't think anything I said was so awful. I was speaking practically about a situation that has no easy answers or solutions. The rest of you should really stop pretending like our healthcare system is something that is so simple to fix.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:01 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
We're not on the same page because to me health coverage is not a "right". Health coverage is a BENEFIT. It's part of a BENEFITS package through whoever you work for. Your employer pays into these benefits. As an employee you pay into these benefits. As an employee you pay even more into these benefits to cover your children, spouse, etc. On top of that when it comes time to claim these medical benefits you have to make co-pays, pay thousands in deductibles, meet coinsurance requirements that amount to even more thousands. It's a fortune out of pocket to have health benefits.
And I may be "jobless" but I don't consider my DH's money HIS money. He works to provide for OUR family. It's OUR money. And we use OUR money to pay into OUR health benefits.
So what I do NOT understand is how anyone expects to provide health coverage to the thousands or even millions of people out there with no ability to pay into the insurance to begin with. Who pays for that?? Who absorbs that cost??
I don't see how health insurance is different than an other form of insurance.
If you get in a car accident and you don't pay to be insured and have coverage, you don't get any benefits when you smack up your car.
When you die, if you didn't pay into a life insurance policy your family doesn't get anything.
If you're sick and don't have health coverage it's not that you can't necessarily be treated, it will just cost you and arm and a leg.
My point is that health insurance, like any insurance, is a benefit that is paid into and to just say that EVERYONE should have health coverage means that someone has to absorb that cost. I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
To cover EVERYONE means society as a whole will have to pay MORE in taxes, it means the health insurance companies will bill things at an even HIGHER rate to offset the costs which of course means those paying into insurance will have even higher premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and coinsurance.
I'm sorry if some of you don't agree. Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion. I'm looking at the healthcare system, which by NO means am I an expert on, from a purely LOGICAL, FINANCIAL standpoint. And logically, I simply don't see how we as a country can offer health benefits to EVERYONE regardless of circumstance when healthcare costs are outrageous on EVERY level. If it can be done somehow then wonderful. That's great! I just don't see it logically happening because at the end of the day even though you're all preaching to me from high up on your soap box nobody really wants to (or can even afford) to be taxed anymore then they already are.
And if there was an easy answer or any easy solution there wouldn't be the healthcare debate that exists today in this country. Clearly, it's easier said then done.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I am not afraid to speak my mind even if it's not the popular opinion. I don't think anything I said was so awful. I was speaking practically about a situation that has no easy answers or solutions. The rest of you should really stop pretending like our healthcare system is something that is so simple to fix.
it doesn't matter what YOU consider it. talking strict numbers, YOU do not ADD any financial value to the health care pot of society. you ONLY DRAIN. and that is fine. but you cannot exempt yourself b/c you think you should be exempt b/c your DH"s money is "our" money.
just b/c some employee handbook calls it a "benefit" does not mean that MORALLY, it is a basic human right.
and to your points, when in a car accident, there is something called NO FAULT insurance, that again, we all pay into and people use it as needed.
and the govt pays out a death benefit to the family of a deceased family member, regardless of whether they have a life ins policy.
Posted by Hofstra26
Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion.
yes, what you are posting paints this picture of you, whether is it real or not.
Posted by Hofstra26
I don't think anything I said was so awful.
yes, to people reading it, it really really is.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:11 AM |
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NoStressMom
My Heart and Soul
Member since 5/05 11122 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by 2boys4me
Posted by Ophelia
it's amazing to me how people don't realize how incredibly insulting this is to many people who did make smart decisions and still find themselves in an incredible hole.
Bingo! Thanks for saying what I was trying to! Sure, there are a lot of people who were frivolous and ended up where they are are but I bet there are many more who did "all the right things" and guess what, are in the hole
agree and
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:18 AM |
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Linda1003
love my 2 boys
Member since 8/08 10923 total posts
Name:
Linda
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Jess. thats not what NO FAULT insurance is.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:19 AM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name:
LB
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Hofstra26
We're not on the same page because to me health coverage is not a "right". Health coverage is a BENEFIT. It's part of a BENEFITS package through whoever you work for. Your employer pays into these benefits. As an employee you pay into these benefits. As an employee you pay even more into these benefits to cover your children, spouse, etc. On top of that when it comes time to claim these medical benefits you have to make co-pays, pay thousands in deductibles, meet coinsurance requirements that amount to even more thousands. It's a fortune out of pocket to have health benefits.
And I may be "jobless" but I don't consider my DH's money HIS money. He works to provide for OUR family. It's OUR money. And we use OUR money to pay into OUR health benefits.
So what I do NOT understand is how anyone expects to provide health coverage to the thousands or even millions of people out there with no ability to pay into the insurance to begin with. Who pays for that?? Who absorbs that cost??
I don't see how health insurance is different than an other form of insurance.
If you get in a car accident and you don't pay to be insured and have coverage, you don't get any benefits when you smack up your car.
When you die, if you didn't pay into a life insurance policy your family doesn't get anything.
If you're sick and don't have health coverage it's not that you can't necessarily be treated, it will just cost you and arm and a leg.
My point is that health insurance, like any insurance, is a benefit that is paid into and to just say that EVERYONE should have health coverage means that someone has to absorb that cost. I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
To cover EVERYONE means society as a whole will have to pay MORE in taxes, it means the health insurance companies will bill things at an even HIGHER rate to offset the costs which of course means those paying into insurance will have even higher premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and coinsurance.
I'm sorry if some of you don't agree. Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion. I'm looking at the healthcare system, which by NO means am I an expert on, from a purely LOGICAL, FINANCIAL standpoint. And logically, I simply don't see how we as a country can offer health benefits to EVERYONE regardless of circumstance when healthcare costs are outrageous on EVERY level. If it can be done somehow then wonderful. That's great! I just don't see it logically happening because at the end of the day even though you're all preaching to me from high up on your soap box nobody really wants to (or can even afford) to be taxed anymore then they already are.
And if there was an easy answer or any easy solution there wouldn't be the healthcare debate that exists today in this country. Clearly, it's easier said then done.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I am not afraid to speak my mind even if it's not the popular opinion. I don't think anything I said was so awful. I was speaking practically about a situation that has no easy answers or solutions. The rest of you should really stop pretending like our healthcare system is something that is so simple to fix.
it doesn't matter what YOU consider it. talking strict numbers, YOU do not ADD any financial value to the health care pot of society. you ONLY DRAIN. and that is fine. but you cannot exempt yourself b/c you think you should be exempt b/c your DH"s money is "our" money.
just b/c some employee handbook calls it a "benefit" does not mean that MORALLY, it is a basic human right.
and to your points, when in a car accident, there is something called NO FAULT insurance, that again, we all pay into and people use it as needed.
and the govt pays out a death benefit to the family of a deceased family member, regardless of whether they have a life ins policy.
Posted by Hofstra26
Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion.
yes, what you are posting paints this picture of you, whether is it real or not.
Posted by Hofstra26
I don't think anything I said was so awful.
yes, to people reading it, it really really is.
I have to agree with Ophelia here. Based on what you have answered, you are contributing as much as a homeless man on the street who cares for his dog with love and compassion, the way you care for your daughter. The thing is, just about everyone on here thinks that there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I would venture to say that the majority of people who have posted on this thread think that you SHOULD be entitled to health care AS MUCH AS anyone else who is living in the United States.
(I happen to draw the line at people not living here legally, but that's my own opinion and is neither here nor there because that's not the point of this thread.)
Message edited 10/18/2011 11:22:38 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:22 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Linda1003
Jess. thats not what NO FAULT insurance is.
really, from a billing standpoint, that is how it was understood. not sure if from an insurance perspective it's different.
I was under the impression that it was insurance for people injured in car accidents when no one is "at fault" that covered injury???? I'd love to learn if that is not the case.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:22 AM |
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HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron
Member since 4/07 9091 total posts
Name:
baby fish mouth
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
My point is that health insurance, like any insurance, is a benefit that is paid into and to just say that EVERYONE should have health coverage means that someone has to absorb that cost. I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
As someone who has worked with, and personally knows loved ones who have battled drugs, I SINCERELY HOPE you never have to deal someone struggling from addiction.
Perhaps if "those people" you think you're SO MUCH BETTER THAN had basic health, perhaps they'd have a better chance.
I'm sorry if some of you don't agree. Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane.
yes it does.
Let's see how your tune would be if your husband lost his job.... or [gasp] developed an addiction.
If our country wasn't full of people like you- we'd be a more loving and understanding place
Message edited 10/18/2011 11:27:00 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:25 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
To cover EVERYONE means society as a whole will have to pay MORE in taxes,
So you're not willing to pitch in a little bit more if everyone got basic healthcare?
And God forbid you have anyone in your family that has struggled with addiction, mental health issues, etc because maybe you would feel differently....In your world, you're saying, there's no point in trying to help those people? At some point we WILL be paying for them when they are in jail or getting welfare anyways....is that really the solution?
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:25 AM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
We're not on the same page because to me health coverage is not a "right". Health coverage is a BENEFIT. It's part of a BENEFITS package through whoever you work for. Your employer pays into these benefits. As an employee you pay into these benefits. As an employee you pay even more into these benefits to cover your children, spouse, etc. On top of that when it comes time to claim these medical benefits you have to make co-pays, pay thousands in deductibles, meet coinsurance requirements that amount to even more thousands. It's a fortune out of pocket to have health benefits.
And I may be "jobless" but I don't consider my DH's money HIS money. He works to provide for OUR family. It's OUR money. And we use OUR money to pay into OUR health benefits.
So what I do NOT understand is how anyone expects to provide health coverage to the thousands or even millions of people out there with no ability to pay into the insurance to begin with. Who pays for that?? Who absorbs that cost??
I don't see how health insurance is different than an other form of insurance.
If you get in a car accident and you don't pay to be insured and have coverage, you don't get any benefits when you smack up your car.
When you die, if you didn't pay into a life insurance policy your family doesn't get anything.
If you're sick and don't have health coverage it's not that you can't necessarily be treated, it will just cost you and arm and a leg.
My point is that health insurance, like any insurance, is a benefit that is paid into and to just say that EVERYONE should have health coverage means that someone has to absorb that cost. I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
To cover EVERYONE means society as a whole will have to pay MORE in taxes, it means the health insurance companies will bill things at an even HIGHER rate to offset the costs which of course means those paying into insurance will have even higher premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and coinsurance.
I'm sorry if some of you don't agree. Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion. I'm looking at the healthcare system, which by NO means am I an expert on, from a purely LOGICAL, FINANCIAL standpoint. And logically, I simply don't see how we as a country can offer health benefits to EVERYONE regardless of circumstance when healthcare costs are outrageous on EVERY level. If it can be done somehow then wonderful. That's great! I just don't see it logically happening because at the end of the day even though you're all preaching to me from high up on your soap box nobody really wants to (or can even afford) to be taxed anymore then they already are.
And if there was an easy answer or any easy solution there wouldn't be the healthcare debate that exists today in this country. Clearly, it's easier said then done.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I am not afraid to speak my mind even if it's not the popular opinion. I don't think anything I said was so awful. I was speaking practically about a situation that has no easy answers or solutions. The rest of you should really stop pretending like our healthcare system is something that is so simple to fix.
What you have said throughout this thread is awful and it IS offensive.
PP pointed out the bit about no fault insurance but that fact the you can compare BASIC HEALTH INSURANCE to fixing your bumper if you are rearended just solidifies the fact that you reall have (or let me be PC here) you SEEM to have, based on your comments throughout this thread NO compassion for others.
Guess what my DH is employed by a fortune 500 company ALSO, I am home w/my son ALSO, I am covered by my DH's plan ALSO...and I am LUCKy to have it so good. Plenty of people work hard in this world and do NOT have what we have...you just reallv do not get it. Why am I bothering to write this I don't know, maybe I am nuts also.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:26 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
We're not on the same page because to me health coverage is not a "right". Health coverage is a BENEFIT. It's part of a BENEFITS package through whoever you work for. Your employer pays into these benefits. As an employee you pay into these benefits. As an employee you pay even more into these benefits to cover your children, spouse, etc. On top of that when it comes time to claim these medical benefits you have to make co-pays, pay thousands in deductibles, meet coinsurance requirements that amount to even more thousands. It's a fortune out of pocket to have health benefits.
And I may be "jobless" but I don't consider my DH's money HIS money. He works to provide for OUR family. It's OUR money. And we use OUR money to pay into OUR health benefits.
So what I do NOT understand is how anyone expects to provide health coverage to the thousands or even millions of people out there with no ability to pay into the insurance to begin with. Who pays for that?? Who absorbs that cost??
I don't see how health insurance is different than an other form of insurance.
If you get in a car accident and you don't pay to be insured and have coverage, you don't get any benefits when you smack up your car.
When you die, if you didn't pay into a life insurance policy your family doesn't get anything.
If you're sick and don't have health coverage it's not that you can't necessarily be treated, it will just cost you and arm and a leg.
My point is that health insurance, like any insurance, is a benefit that is paid into and to just say that EVERYONE should have health coverage means that someone has to absorb that cost. I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
To cover EVERYONE means society as a whole will have to pay MORE in taxes, it means the health insurance companies will bill things at an even HIGHER rate to offset the costs which of course means those paying into insurance will have even higher premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and coinsurance.
I'm sorry if some of you don't agree. Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion. I'm looking at the healthcare system, which by NO means am I an expert on, from a purely LOGICAL, FINANCIAL standpoint. And logically, I simply don't see how we as a country can offer health benefits to EVERYONE regardless of circumstance when healthcare costs are outrageous on EVERY level. If it can be done somehow then wonderful. That's great! I just don't see it logically happening because at the end of the day even though you're all preaching to me from high up on your soap box nobody really wants to (or can even afford) to be taxed anymore then they already are.
And if there was an easy answer or any easy solution there wouldn't be the healthcare debate that exists today in this country. Clearly, it's easier said then done.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I am not afraid to speak my mind even if it's not the popular opinion. I don't think anything I said was so awful. I was speaking practically about a situation that has no easy answers or solutions. The rest of you should really stop pretending like our healthcare system is something that is so simple to fix.
So, wait.
Do you REALLY think you already don't absorb the costs of providing medical to the uninsured/underinsured?
I will pray for you.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:35 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by tarabelle99
Posted by Hofstra26
We're not on the same page because to me health coverage is not a "right". Health coverage is a BENEFIT. It's part of a BENEFITS package through whoever you work for. Your employer pays into these benefits. As an employee you pay into these benefits. As an employee you pay even more into these benefits to cover your children, spouse, etc. On top of that when it comes time to claim these medical benefits you have to make co-pays, pay thousands in deductibles, meet coinsurance requirements that amount to even more thousands. It's a fortune out of pocket to have health benefits.
And I may be "jobless" but I don't consider my DH's money HIS money. He works to provide for OUR family. It's OUR money. And we use OUR money to pay into OUR health benefits.
So what I do NOT understand is how anyone expects to provide health coverage to the thousands or even millions of people out there with no ability to pay into the insurance to begin with. Who pays for that?? Who absorbs that cost??
I don't see how health insurance is different than an other form of insurance.
If you get in a car accident and you don't pay to be insured and have coverage, you don't get any benefits when you smack up your car.
When you die, if you didn't pay into a life insurance policy your family doesn't get anything.
If you're sick and don't have health coverage it's not that you can't necessarily be treated, it will just cost you and arm and a leg.
My point is that health insurance, like any insurance, is a benefit that is paid into and to just say that EVERYONE should have health coverage means that someone has to absorb that cost. I'm not saying that I am against my taxes being used to help others but let's be realistic for a moment. That drug addict on the street..........unless he has a STRONG support system when he comes out of rehab statistics show he will be right back there so now who absorbs that cost for him to go in and out of rehab constantly? What about the women who get pregnant over and over and over again. Who is paying to deliver those babies and care for those kids when they are sick? Who is absorbing this cost? These astronomical costs!!
To cover EVERYONE means society as a whole will have to pay MORE in taxes, it means the health insurance companies will bill things at an even HIGHER rate to offset the costs which of course means those paying into insurance will have even higher premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and coinsurance.
I'm sorry if some of you don't agree. Just because my view differs does not mean I'm selfish, self centered, clueless, or inhumane. This has NOTHING to do with personal character or even a lack of compassion. I'm looking at the healthcare system, which by NO means am I an expert on, from a purely LOGICAL, FINANCIAL standpoint. And logically, I simply don't see how we as a country can offer health benefits to EVERYONE regardless of circumstance when healthcare costs are outrageous on EVERY level. If it can be done somehow then wonderful. That's great! I just don't see it logically happening because at the end of the day even though you're all preaching to me from high up on your soap box nobody really wants to (or can even afford) to be taxed anymore then they already are.
And if there was an easy answer or any easy solution there wouldn't be the healthcare debate that exists today in this country. Clearly, it's easier said then done.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I am not afraid to speak my mind even if it's not the popular opinion. I don't think anything I said was so awful. I was speaking practically about a situation that has no easy answers or solutions. The rest of you should really stop pretending like our healthcare system is something that is so simple to fix.
So, wait.
Do you REALLY think you already don't absorb the costs of providing medical to the uninsured/underinsured?
I will pray for you.
Exactly...I don't know how this point is lost 
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:38 AM |
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Linda1003
love my 2 boys
Member since 8/08 10923 total posts
Name:
Linda
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Linda1003
Jess. thats not what NO FAULT insurance is.
really, from a billing standpoint, that is how it was understood. not sure if from an insurance perspective it's different.
I was under the impression that it was insurance for people injured in car accidents when no one is "at fault" that covered injury???? I'd love to learn if that is not the case.
its paid for by the policyholder of the vehicle you are in. It's not something we "all contribute to" and "pull out from" kwim? And it does NOTHING to deter law suits.. it actually has increased law suits through subrogation. But this has no bearing on the post topic.. hahah sorry.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:38 AM |
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