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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by MandJZ
I'm sorry if I offended anyone who was trying to be respectful. This is a very heated issue that is obviously close to the hearts of many of us. I have personally lost friends and family to the ongoing conflict in Israel. But it's clear that no minds will be changed here. I hope that those who do not know much will do their research and find independent, neutral sources. I truly think the bbc article I posted a few pages back is a good source. I pray for peace and for safety for all the innocent people in the region, and for my brothers and sisters who are risking their lives in the IDF to defend our state. Obviously my bias is clear, bit I am also educated on the issue and know the facts. The sad truth is, I fear we will not see peace in our lifetime.
I have learned a lot from you tonite and bookmarked every link you and evnme posted!
I have learned a great deal as well..having visited once, I feel a connection to Israel...
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Posted 7/21/14 11:06 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
And with all due respect, THIS land was taken from the Natives - was it not?
I wrote out a whole response and then deleted it because I don't want to misinterpret you.
Can you clarify what you meant by the "Natives" comment? Just curious.
I meant that there were people living here when America was colonized. This country was colonized by England and there were already people living here.
But I'm no longer engaging in debate on this thread. I'm done arguing.
Um, okay. This is my first post on this thread.
ETA - I am a history teacher and well aware of the facts. I was curious about your point in posting them, but I respect your decision to step away from the debate. I think, based on your posts, it's a good call.
Message edited 7/21/2014 11:09:53 PM.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:07 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
. Actually, it wasn't anyone's land. 120 plus years agoit was desolate and sparsely populated while under British control. European Jews were better organized and did a great deal to modernize and develop the area. They ended up with it.
But they had to bring bulldozers over to demolish homes to build their own?? Not so modern if you ask me.
Anyone heard of Rachel Corrie?
You're ignoring posts with information and questions that you don't want to respond to.
I'm not ignoring anything, there's just a lot of posts and I can't read and keep up with them. Also, please stop being aggressive with me, I really don't appreciate it.
I apologize for coming across as aggressive. I really do. You are entitled to your beliefs just like everyone else. I see no need to keep arguing in circles. Tonight I pray for the safety of everyone living in the region, and I pray for lasting peace. I hope your loved ones are safe.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:07 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19461 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Tulips915
Posted by Jenny614
Israeli Defense Force creates a great amount of terror...so in my book they can be called terrorists
You cannot be serious....
Please just stop.
Wow. Just wow.
Why? Tell me why you know I'm wrong. You know for sure they don't cause fear and terrorize a group of people? If so, please let me know
To be a terorist the person or military specifically has to target civilians.
The IDF does not go around trying to harm a civilian population. They go out of their way to specifically not target the civilian population by calling, disseminating leaflets, and as a measure of last resort using non lethal bombs to alert civilians to get out of harms way before specifically targeting military weapons.
The fact that Hamas uses their civilian homes, schools, and hospitals is deplorable.
Do you go up to our police or military to combat or antagonize them? Cause if you did, I am sure 100% you would be thrown in jail for assault or battery. If a person starts throwing rocks at a soldier what do they reasonably expect is going to happen when they antagonize a soldier?
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:08 PM |
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Still support Israel?
Jenny... In all honesty, if you started the thread immediately setting your thoughts and why you believed them instead of recruiting people to agree with something you were not originally forthright about, this would have been a truly eye opening debate with both sides. I am not anti-Palestinian, and I agree right now the Gazan civilians are trapped.
I think you'd have seen how many supporters you may have had if you took a different approach.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:08 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
And with all due respect, THIS land was taken from the Natives - was it not?
I wrote out a whole response and then deleted it because I don't want to misinterpret you.
Can you clarify what you meant by the "Natives" comment? Just curious.
I meant that there were people living here when America was colonized. This country was colonized by England and there were already people living here.
But I'm no longer engaging in debate on this thread. I'm done arguing.
Um, okay. This is my first post on this thread.
I didn't mean with you specifically. I just don't want to get into an argument again. That's all.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:08 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
And with all due respect, THIS land was taken from the Natives - was it not?
I wrote out a whole response and then deleted it because I don't want to misinterpret you.
Can you clarify what you meant by the "Natives" comment? Just curious.
I meant that there were people living here when America was colonized. This country was colonized by England and there were already people living here.
But I'm no longer engaging in debate on this thread. I'm done arguing.
Um, okay. This is my first post on this thread.
I didn't mean with you specifically. I just don't want to get into an argument again. That's all.
I edited my last post with more info because I thought I read condescension in your response (I mean who doesn't know those facts?) but I see that you are battle fatigued and I doubt you meant to be malicious.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:12 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Jenny... In all honesty, if you started the thread immediately setting your thoughts and why you believed them instead of recruiting people to agree with something you were not originally forthright about, this would have been a truly eye opening debate with both sides. I am not anti-Palestinian, and I agree right now the Gazan civilians are trapped.
I think you'd have seen how many supporters you may have had if you took a different approach.
Yup
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:13 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by JennP
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
And with all due respect, THIS land was taken from the Natives - was it not?
I wrote out a whole response and then deleted it because I don't want to misinterpret you.
Can you clarify what you meant by the "Natives" comment? Just curious.
I meant that there were people living here when America was colonized. This country was colonized by England and there were already people living here.
But I'm no longer engaging in debate on this thread. I'm done arguing.
Um, okay. This is my first post on this thread.
I didn't mean with you specifically. I just don't want to get into an argument again. That's all.
I edited my last post with more info because I thought I read condescension in your response (I mean who doesn't know those facts?) but I see that you are battle fatigued and I doubt you meant to be malicious.
Thank you. I didn't mean to be condescending. I was pointing out that history is full of stories of one group taking land from another, which you likely know more about than me. But I honestly can't even remember what my argument was at this point.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:14 PM |
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Jenny614
LIF Adult
Member since 1/11 1065 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Jenny... In all honesty, if you started the thread immediately setting your thoughts and why you believed them instead of recruiting people to agree with something you were not originally forthright about, this would have been a truly eye opening debate with both sides. I am not anti-Palestinian, and I agree right now the Gazan civilians are trapped.
I think you'd have seen how many supporters you may have had if you took a different approach.
I agree. I acted on impulsive emotion. I'm sick and distraught over what's going on and wish I had the ability to be more clear. Thanks though:)
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:16 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19461 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by Jenny614
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
1. Why are the people who live in these buildings allowing Hamas to store their weapons in their homes, schools, business, hospital?
2. If Israel has a phone number of building occupants it calls them before attempting to destroy the building.
3. They drop leaflets in Arabic so people can understand to get out.
Ok you may be right, but go where. Where are these people supposed to go? Gather their favorite pictures a d children and move to another building to wait for the next call?
Well if they, their family, and their friends stood up and said Hamas - we don't want you to store guns, and ammo, or make a tunnel under our homes. Then they would not have to move.
And why is it that Israel has to open their borders? They are also neighbors to Egypt. Why doesn't their fellow Muslims take them in with open arms, give them shelter?
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:18 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by Jenny614
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
1. Why are the people who live in these buildings allowing Hamas to store their weapons in their homes, schools, business, hospital?
2. If Israel has a phone number of building occupants it calls them before attempting to destroy the building.
3. They drop leaflets in Arabic so people can understand to get out.
Ok you may be right, but go where. Where are these people supposed to go? Gather their favorite pictures a d children and move to another building to wait for the next call?
Well if they, their family, and their friends stood up and said Hamas - we don't want you to store guns, and ammo, or make a tunnel under our homes. Then they would not have to move.
And why is it that Israel has to open their borders? They are also neighbors to Egypt. Why doesn't their fellow Muslims take them in with open arms, give them shelter?
I wrote abt this several posts above, but there's so much that now it probably got lost in the thread. But thisArticle explains it pretty clearly
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:23 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Still support Israel?
I am a history teacher and was going to write out some facts but I'm not because 1. I came in late on this and I'm not sure if anybody really gives a shit anymore and 2. I am very tired and don't feel like reading everything to see what has already been discussed.
However, if this topic interests anyone I can recommend a very good book that gives a lot of the background. It addresses things like the Balfour Declaration, the conflicts and politics surrounding it, the resentment on both sides, etc. It is called "The Arabs" by David Lamb and despite the name it is NOT pro Palestinian at ALL. It was written by a journalist who spent many years living in the Middle East. It is meant to shed light on the Arabs as people and has many chapters not devoted to this issue (he writes extensively about living in Cairo for example) but he tackles all the background here in a very evenhanded way, discussing the controversy surrounding many, many moves made on both sides. It is not at all like a history textbook - it is fascinating!
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:27 PM |
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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
. Actually, it wasn't anyone's land. 120 plus years agoit was desolate and sparsely populated while under British control. European Jews were better organized and did a great deal to modernize and develop the area. They ended up with it.
But they had to bring bulldozers over to demolish homes to build their own?? Not so modern if you ask me.
Anyone heard of Rachel Corrie?
You're ignoring posts with information and questions that you don't want to respond to.
I'm not ignoring anything, there's just a lot of posts and I can't read and keep up with them. Also, please stop being aggressive with me, I really don't appreciate it.
I apologize for coming across as aggressive. I really do. You are entitled to your beliefs just like everyone else. I see no need to keep arguing in circles. Tonight I pray for the safety of everyone living in the region, and I pray for lasting peace. I hope your loved ones are safe.
. It is your absolute right to step away from this thread , but I must say your posts have been informative and well written. I just hope you don't feel that you are being pushed away.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:28 PM |
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PearlJamChick
No one sings like you anymore.
Member since 7/10 9264 total posts
Name:
Petticoated Swashbuckler
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Re: Pray for peace
I'm just popping on the thread to thank Mer for the links she posted. I haven't been able to read all of them - I'll be using my commutes to finish them up - but they are all so informative.
Another poster had some valuable links too - forgive me if I get your user name incorrect...evandme? Thank you too.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:43 PM |
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mbg1007
LIF Adult
Member since 3/09 1247 total posts
Name:
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by LSP2005
Posted by Jenny614
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
1. Why are the people who live in these buildings allowing Hamas to store their weapons in their homes, schools, business, hospital?
2. If Israel has a phone number of building occupants it calls them before attempting to destroy the building.
3. They drop leaflets in Arabic so people can understand to get out.
Ok you may be right, but go where. Where are these people supposed to go? Gather their favorite pictures a d children and move to another building to wait for the next call?
OP, I've been reading this whole thread that started with you saying Israel was massacring Palestinians and 10 pages later you still have not answered or addressed the issues that were brought up. Above you say, ok, and seem to agree Israel is trying to warn Palestinians, so really the opposite of wanting to massacre them but STILL don't address the issues of why their government is allowing this to happen. Yes, horrible they have no place to go. It's horrible that their government uses money to send rockets into Israel and builds tunnels to smuggle weapons into Israel instead of building bomb shelters for their citizens which they will surely need the next time Hamas decides to attack Israel. If they truly cared about their people why are they not protecting them? Instead they are using their deaths as propaganda to feed their cause. what is Israel supposed to do when Hamas sends rockets into their country??? Sit there and not defend themselves???? It's not Israel's responsibility to protect them, it's Hamas's and they have not done a damn thing except send more rockets and let their people die after starting yet another war. You should be outraged at them.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:47 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Pray for peace
Posted by PearlJamChick
I'm just popping on the thread to thank Mer for the links she posted. I haven't been able to read all of them - I'll be using my commutes to finish them up - but they are all so informative.
Another poster had some valuable links too - forgive me if I get your user name incorrect...evandme? Thank you too.
Glad to help and educate. You won't see much in mainstream media.
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| Posted 7/21/14 11:51 PM |
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blumachaya
LIF Infant
Member since 10/08 113 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pray for peace
I just want to add which country gives medical aid and evacuates their enemy to the Same hospitals as their own soldiers ! Yes, it's horrible that the children and innocent people of Gaza are suffering but this is a war that they brought on all by themselves. The people of Gaza can not hide weapons and rockets under schools and hospitals and then scream that Israel is killing innocent people. The truth is that the people of Gaza feel that their cause is far more important then the lives of their children!
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| Posted 7/22/14 7:30 AM |
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Jonsgirl04
Love my two girls! xoxo
Member since 9/08 6079 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Pray for peace
I Just want to thank those who provided links and such to help those educate. I knew there was conflict but never really understood it. I am glad I read through some of it so know I have a better understanding of what is going on over there.
Thank You!!
And I do Pray for Peace! Enough is enough!  
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| Posted 7/22/14 8:32 AM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Pray for peace
I wanted to send Jenny an FM, to once again apologize for coming across as aggressive to her. But she is an invalid user now
So, with the hope that she is still reading this, I'd like to say this: Jenny, you and I obviously come from different backgrounds, and we have different experiences and a vastly different perspective on the situation. But we are both close to it, and we both feel passionately about it. And we both want peace. In that way we are the same. This issue, to me, is 100x more emotional than any of the controversial topics I have engaged in on here. I allowed my emotions to come into play in many of my responses on this thread, and I truly apologize if in doing so I was aggressive or offensive. My only prayer now is for peace, and for safety. I truly hope that your loved ones in the region are safe, and that some day soon they can celebrate because of peace.
Though it may seem it to those of us so closely connected to the issue, it is very much not black and white. One side is not always right, and the other always wrong. And the deaths of any innocent people, especially children, no matter the 'reason', are always a terrible tragedy. In the end, at this point, does it matter who started it or who has the moral high ground? What matters is that people, children, are living in constant fear on both sides, and people are dying. I'm not the praying type, I tend to give good thoughts and vibes rather than prayers, but now I send my prayer for peace, and I hope everyone will join me in doing so.
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| Posted 7/22/14 8:43 AM |
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Tulips915
................
Member since 8/08 6851 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Pray for peace
Posted by MandJZ
I wanted to send Jenny an FM, to once again apologize for coming across as aggressive to her. But she is an invalid user now
She'll be back.. They always come back
Anyway, maybe if she wrote more in her OP, this thread would have been totally different. She wanted the controversy IMO.
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| Posted 7/22/14 9:17 AM |
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alli3131
Peanut is here!!!!!!
Member since 5/09 18388 total posts
Name:
Allison
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Re: Pray for peace
Posted by MandJZ
I wanted to send Jenny an FM, to once again apologize for coming across as aggressive to her. But she is an invalid user now
So, with the hope that she is still reading this, I'd like to say this: Jenny, you and I obviously come from different backgrounds, and we have different experiences and a vastly different perspective on the situation. But we are both close to it, and we both feel passionately about it. And we both want peace. In that way we are the same. This issue, to me, is 100x more emotional than any of the controversial topics I have engaged in on here. I allowed my emotions to come into play in many of my responses on this thread, and I truly apologize if in doing so I was aggressive or offensive. My only prayer now is for peace, and for safety. I truly hope that your loved ones in the region are safe, and that some day soon they can celebrate because of peace.
Though it may seem it to those of us so closely connected to the issue, it is very much not black and white. One side is not always right, and the other always wrong. And the deaths of any innocent people, especially children, no matter the 'reason', are always a terrible tragedy. In the end, at this point, does it matter who started it or who has the moral high ground? What matters is that people, children, are living in constant fear on both sides, and people are dying. I'm not the praying type, I tend to give good thoughts and vibes rather than prayers, but now I send my prayer for peace, and I hope everyone will join me in doing so.
I think this response is a very nice and adult thing to do. I really hope she reads it and I really hope people can let this end here. I do not know the OP at all but like many of others on here is sounds like she has family and close ties to the region and she is hurting as much as others on here.
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| Posted 7/22/14 9:27 AM |
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jellybean78
:)
Member since 8/06 13103 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Pray for peace
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
Posted by MandJZ
Ok. Honestly. I don't understand.
One side has PUBLICLY said that their ONLY goal is to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel. The other side has agreed to numerous peace accords and agreements and only wants to protect its citizens.
One side hides rockets IN A SCHOOL, the other side warns the civilians of their enemy about impending military strikes with the goal of minimizing casualties.
Hamas is a TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. I don't understand.
I agree and am confused by people defending Hamas..not civilians but Hamas
Yeah so am I. I am not Israeli or Palestinian..I am an American Christian but I support Israel 10000%. They are defending their country and their people. They have tried for peace. I pray for them and their people..it is so ugly over there I can't even imagine.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that is intent on killing and spreading hatred of all Jews and for that matter anyone who is not Hamas. They don't even care about their own citizens..using them as shields and disregarding their lives. How can anyone support that?
That said I do feel for the innocent non-Hamas Palestenian people that unfortunately have no way out. Praying for them too.
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| Posted 7/22/14 9:51 AM |
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PearlJamChick
No one sings like you anymore.
Member since 7/10 9264 total posts
Name:
Petticoated Swashbuckler
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Re: Pray for peace
Posted by evnme
Posted by PearlJamChick
I'm just popping on the thread to thank Mer for the links she posted. I haven't been able to read all of them - I'll be using my commutes to finish them up - but they are all so informative.
Another poster had some valuable links too - forgive me if I get your user name incorrect...evandme? Thank you too.
Glad to help and educate. You won't see much in mainstream media.
No, you definitely don't - I studied journalism so I know how biased sources and reporting is. At this point in my life, journalism has taken a backseat so it's great to have people point out reliable sources.
Thank you again...lots of reading to do.
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| Posted 7/22/14 10:15 AM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Pray for peace
Posted by PearlJamChick
Posted by evnme
Posted by PearlJamChick
I'm just popping on the thread to thank Mer for the links she posted. I haven't been able to read all of them - I'll be using my commutes to finish them up - but they are all so informative.
Another poster had some valuable links too - forgive me if I get your user name incorrect...evandme? Thank you too.
Glad to help and educate. You won't see much in mainstream media.
No, you definitely don't - I studied journalism so I know how biased sources and reporting is. At this point in my life, journalism has taken a backseat so it's great to have people point out reliable sources.
Thank you again...lots of reading to do.
Thank YOU Kris. I left last night feeling as though I really went overboard and did not represent myself the way I always try to - above all, as a rational, well-informed person. So thank you
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| Posted 7/22/14 10:22 AM |
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