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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by ANewDayHasCome
Posted by Jenny614
Anyone heard of Rachel Corrie?
Have you heard of Leon Klinghoffer?!?
I have, and it was a terrible thing that happened to him. But in my opinion, the situations are different. Don't get upset. It's my opinion.
And the Canadian tourist, a child, only 17, killed by a Palestinian terrorist bomb? Is that different too?
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Posted 7/21/14 10:13 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
hmm
Sweet
Member since 1/14 7993 total posts
Name:
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Re: Still support Israel?
WOW when I first gave my answer to the question who know it would take off like this. I cant read everything too much, but Israel is a kind and gentle place.
Israel has the ability to live in peace but Hama does not. I said it earlier and will say it again. You cant live in peace with people who are always looking for ways to KILL you everyday they take a breath. Israel has tried over and over again, and they work hard not to kill civilians, but the news will only show you how many they killed but never show the world how many Israelis are killed everyday by the hands of Hama's.
Since this is such a hot topic I am afraid to bring up the education aspect
Message edited 7/21/2014 10:16:17 PM.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:14 PM |
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Tulips915
Posted by Jenny614
Israeli Defense Force creates a great amount of terror...so in my book they can be called terrorists
You cannot be serious....
Please just stop.
This is where I discovered this won't possibly be a rational debate.
Check please.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:16 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
Hamas plays the media and uses that to their advantage. That's why they use their people as human shields and hide weapons, bombs and rockets in homes, schools, hospitals and mosques. They like their dead to be telegenic.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:16 PM |
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Teachergal
We made a snowman!
Member since 1/08 3239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Mrs Yank. You have not answered my multiple attempts to get you to respond.
She responded several pages ago:
Posted by MrsYank
I think a good start would be to a fair 2 state solution. There has to be a compromise.
It's quite obvious that they will never, ever, destroy Israel.
I get that you feel passionate about this issue, as do many others on the thread. But your multiple attempts to get her to respond is coming off negative. She was giving her opinion and doing it in a non-aggressive way. Her idea may not be possible as a solution, but do any of us REALLY know how to solve this crisis? I feel like asking her to provide a solution is setting her up, when she was just expressing her opinion.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:17 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Is BBC neutral enough? Here. READ THIS
One of the most notable quotes: "Hamas's charter defines historic Palestine - including present-day Israel - as Islamic land and it rules out any permanent peace with the Jewish state."
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:18 PM |
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ANewDayHasCome
Love multiplies, not divides
Member since 11/12 14481 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by Tulips915
Posted by Jenny614
Israeli Defense Force creates a great amount of terror...so in my book they can be called terrorists
You cannot be serious....
Please just stop.
This is where I discovered this won't possibly be a rational debate.
Check please.
I agree. This is going nowhere. I'm glad some factual information has been shared though (mixed with utter nonsense).
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:20 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Teachergal
Posted by MandJZ
Mrs Yank. You have not answered my multiple attempts to get you to respond.
She responded several pages ago:
Posted by MrsYank
I think a good start would be to a fair 2 state solution. There has to be a compromise.
It's quite obvious that they will never, ever, destroy Israel.
I get that you feel passionate about this issue, as do many others on the thread. But your multiple attempts to get her to respond is coming off negative. She was giving her opinion and doing it in a non-aggressive way. Her idea may not be possible as a solution, but do any of us REALLY know how to solve this crisis? I feel like asking her to provide a solution is setting her up, when she was just expressing her opinion.
I was responding to that response. How can there be a two state solution when one side has as its mandate that they will not agree to a two state solution. I was continuing a discussion.
And I'm totally fine as coming off as negative here. That happens when I feel as though the right of my people to live in their country peacefully is being attacked.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:20 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MandJZ
Mrs Yank. You have not answered my multiple attempts to get you to respond.
Sorry, I am just catching up now. As much as I love a good discussion I enjoy spending some quality time with my husband much more.
I think it has to start with a genuine peace talk (on both sides).
I think that Israel has to recognize that there were some things (as some Israel supporters have stated here as well) that could have been done better. I think that the 2 state solution HAS to be equal.
Does anyone here realize that the 3 religions that claim Jerusalem as their Holy Land (and fight the most over it) all have very similar backgrounds?
I am not anti-Israel or and Anti-semite- some of my best friends are Jewish! And- some of my Israeli friends have similar beliefs as me.
What is your solution?
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:20 PM |
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Anxious3
LIF Infant
Member since 1/13 164 total posts
Name:
floof
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Still support Israel?
I'm curious what makes so many say that the media is so biased against Israel. I have always felt the opposite to be true, at least in this country.
Honest question, nothing nefarious here. Trying to learn.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:20 PM |
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Jenny614
LIF Adult
Member since 1/11 1065 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by evnme
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
Posted by MandJZ
I'm seriously asking. Because nobody has responded.
To those that are pro-Palestinian - how can you defend a group (Hamas) who has it written explicitly in their charter that their only goal is to kill Jews and destroy Israel? And that this is the only acceptable end result?
I think some of the confusion lies in the fact that that was the elected government but also a terrorist organization
Not all Palestinians support Hamas. But for others I think that they feel Hamas is all they have as far as a resistance force. Palestine has no support and no military defense...against a country that receives billions of dollars in aide
Hamas has taken the gazans hostage and uses people as human shields and are living in the lap of luxury while the people live in poverty. They receive so much money from other counties and squander it away on themselves and rockets. They wasted millions of $ on building tunnels to carry out terrorism.Hamas uses schools, hospitals, homes and mosques to hide and shoot bombs and rockets. Israel pulled out of Gaza 7 years ago and left greenhouses and industry and Hamas leadership destroyed it all. This land could have been a seaside paradise.
And inspite of what is happening, Israel is still supplying Gaza with supplies and aid.
Hamas broke 3 ceasefires this week and wouldn't accept blood donations from Israel.
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:21 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MrsYank
Posted by MandJZ
Mrs Yank. You have not answered my multiple attempts to get you to respond.
Sorry, I am just catching up now. As much as I love a good discussion I enjoy spending some quality time with my husband much more.
I think it has to start with a genuine peace talk (on both sides).
I think that Israel has to recognize that there were some things (as some Israel supporters have stated here as well) that could have been done better. I think that the 2 state solution HAS to be equal.
Does anyone here realize that the 3 religions that claim Jerusalem as their Holy Land (and fight the most over it) all have very similar backgrounds?
I am not anti-Israel or and Anti-semite- some of my best friends are Jewish! And- some of my Israeli friends have similar beliefs as me.
What is your solution?
The removal of Hamas as the leadership, with a more moderate Palestinian leadership in place then real talk can begin. Because Israel is at the table, and Hamas is not.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:21 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Teachergal
Posted by MandJZ
Mrs Yank. You have not answered my multiple attempts to get you to respond.
She responded several pages ago:
Posted by MrsYank
I think a good start would be to a fair 2 state solution. There has to be a compromise.
It's quite obvious that they will never, ever, destroy Israel.
I get that you feel passionate about this issue, as do many others on the thread. But your multiple attempts to get her to respond is coming off negative. She was giving her opinion and doing it in a non-aggressive way. Her idea may not be possible as a solution, but do any of us REALLY know how to solve this crisis? I feel like asking her to provide a solution is setting her up, when she was just expressing her opinion.
Thank you, I am really trying hard to be respectful here.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:22 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by evnme
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
Posted by MandJZ
I'm seriously asking. Because nobody has responded.
To those that are pro-Palestinian - how can you defend a group (Hamas) who has it written explicitly in their charter that their only goal is to kill Jews and destroy Israel? And that this is the only acceptable end result?
I think some of the confusion lies in the fact that that was the elected government but also a terrorist organization
Not all Palestinians support Hamas. But for others I think that they feel Hamas is all they have as far as a resistance force. Palestine has no support and no military defense...against a country that receives billions of dollars in aide
Hamas has taken the gazans hostage and uses people as human shields and are living in the lap of luxury while the people live in poverty. They receive so much money from other counties and squander it away on themselves and rockets. They wasted millions of $ on building tunnels to carry out terrorism.Hamas uses schools, hospitals, homes and mosques to hide and shoot bombs and rockets. Israel pulled out of Gaza 7 years ago and left greenhouses and industry and Hamas leadership destroyed it all. This land could have been a seaside paradise.
And inspite of what is happening, Israel is still supplying Gaza with supplies and aid.
Hamas broke 3 ceasefires this week and wouldn't accept blood donations from Israel.
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
Are you serious here? ISRAEL has a warning system for tis citizens. It is the responsibility of HAMAS to have one for ITS citizens. Israel should give Hamas an app that tells them when they are being targeted? For real?
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:23 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by evnme
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
Posted by MandJZ
I'm seriously asking. Because nobody has responded.
To those that are pro-Palestinian - how can you defend a group (Hamas) who has it written explicitly in their charter that their only goal is to kill Jews and destroy Israel? And that this is the only acceptable end result?
I think some of the confusion lies in the fact that that was the elected government but also a terrorist organization
Not all Palestinians support Hamas. But for others I think that they feel Hamas is all they have as far as a resistance force. Palestine has no support and no military defense...against a country that receives billions of dollars in aide
Hamas has taken the gazans hostage and uses people as human shields and are living in the lap of luxury while the people live in poverty. They receive so much money from other counties and squander it away on themselves and rockets. They wasted millions of $ on building tunnels to carry out terrorism.Hamas uses schools, hospitals, homes and mosques to hide and shoot bombs and rockets. Israel pulled out of Gaza 7 years ago and left greenhouses and industry and Hamas leadership destroyed it all. This land could have been a seaside paradise.
And inspite of what is happening, Israel is still supplying Gaza with supplies and aid.
Hamas broke 3 ceasefires this week and wouldn't accept blood donations from Israel.
I don't support Hamas, but you are painting this picture of Israel is untrue in my book. The IDF does not care about the lives of Palestinians. They have humiliated these people, destroyed lives in many ways, deprived these people of basic human rights, etc. and I don't have to read any articles to know this...I have seen it with my own eyes. Maybe they supply some aid but then they target an ambulance.
And somebody mentioned a warning that Palestinians get when a home is targeted. Well the warning is a mini bomb and then like a minute later the real bomb shows up. Israelis on the other hand have an app they can download to warn them of targets. I don't want to get fired up because that's not me...I'm just so upset that Palestinians are constantly being viewed as there evil terrorists and Israel not only has to defend itself, but is also defending the victims of Hamas. It's just not true.
Oh isn't revisionist history fun!
And who started all the wars?
Do you study real world history or propaganda history?
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:23 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: Still support Israel?
Just curious who here actually lived in Israel? Who went back to fight in the army?
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:26 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Because things are getting lost, a few points:
MrsYank: I do not mean to attack you. However, I as following up on your response about the two state solution. That is impossible when one side refuses to come to the table unless the destruction of Israel is the end result. A more moderate Palestinian leadership that is willing to discuss peace is the first step.
And Jenny. Really? Because Israel has a way of warning its citizens of attacks, Israel should also warn Gazans the same way? Does the US warn Iraquis when they bomb? No. It is the responsibility of the Palestinian leadership to warn its citizens, and protect them, rather than hiding rockets under schools.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:26 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by MrsYank
Just curious who here actually lived in Israel? Who went back to fight in the army?
I lived there. But I am not a citizen, so I was not in the army.
At present, I have approximately 12 cousins (first cousins, my mother's brothers' children) in the IDF.
Message edited 7/21/2014 10:27:40 PM.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:27 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Anxious3
I'm curious what makes so many say that the media is so biased against Israel. I have always felt the opposite to be true, at least in this country.
Honest question, nothing nefarious here. Trying to learn.
I agree, although there was a good article that said with the creation of social media, the story of the Palestinian people is finally being told on American media.
ETA: There is a really great video that I can't post for the life of me.
Message edited 7/21/2014 10:29:00 PM.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:27 PM |
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LSP2005
Bunny kisses are so cute!
Member since 5/05 19458 total posts
Name:
L
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Re: Still support Israel?
My solution:
Three states
1. Israel
2. Gaza
3. West Bank
Removal of most, but not all settlements.
No right of return for Palestinian descendants.
Citizenship without land grants to only those who were displaced, but not their progeny (Approximately 25,000 people vs. the multi-million people who are Palestinian).
Walled borders to remain in place.
Formal recognition of Israel's right to exist and Jews right to live in Israel peacefully.
Apology on both sides agreeing that both were wrong and that for the good of the people we all have to move past this horrible time in history.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:28 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Still support Israel?
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
Message edited 7/21/2014 10:29:18 PM.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:28 PM |
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Still support Israel?
That's the point..Hamas does not care about its citizens and makes it look like it's all Israel...lest we not forget their agenda..I think mjandz just wants the acknowledgement of that agenda, which is pretty straightforward and holding any hope of peace back
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:29 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by tara73
Why is it that if you don't 100% back Israel's actions you're suddenly an anti semite?
(for the record, I lean more in support of Israel, but not because of religion)
I absolutely don't think that.
But if you support Hamas, whose mandate is to kill Jews and destroy Israel....then you're an anti-semite.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:30 PM |
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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Still support Israel?
Posted by Jenny614
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by MrsYank
With all due respect, their land was basically taken from them. Please correct if I am wrong?
A very, very, small piece of land was "given" back to them.
. Actually, it wasn't anyone's land. 120 plus years agoit was desolate and sparsely populated while under British control. European Jews were better organized and did a great deal to modernize and develop the area. They ended up with it.
But they had to bring bulldozers over to demolish homes to build their own?? Not so modern if you ask me.
Anyone heard of Rachel Corrie?
Let's just say hypothetically " their land was stolen ". I don't think is is historically accurate at all since we have extensive evidence supporting the population break down in modern day Israel a century ago. But we will go with that theory for arguments sake. Isn't it time to move on ? Israel isn't going anywhere. Ever. It is done. Wouldn't the adoptive attitude be to work towards creating a beautiful community and achieving peace. These rocket strikes will never accomplish anything. Israel has nuclear weapons and American support. Aside from being a terrorist organization, Hamas is incredibly short sighted and mis guided.So, I will never understand why they don't try to get what they can, make peace and call it day. The only reason they don't do this is because they are so fixated on killing Jews that they can't see reason. I feel true empathy for Palestinians who don't support Hamas and are stuck in this nightmare. I also am sickened by deaths on BOTH sides. I abhor violence, but it is the sovereign right of a nation to protect its people from attacks. I cannot see an alternative.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:34 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Still support Israel?
I spent my 1st year of grad school living in Jerusalem 13 years ago. Every night we would hear gunfire and apache helicopters from the West Bank. Hamas was blowing up public places with suicide bombers. If we weren't at a program when moment cafe was blown up, 2/3 of my class would have been killed including my 2 roommates.
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| Posted 7/21/14 10:34 PM |
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