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Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by ArmyOfBabies
Posted by smdl
Posted by ArmyOfBabies
I'm on the fence.
On one hand I don't believe in taking away a woman's right, that's not fair. On the other hand, I don't agree with terminating a pregnancy if there is not an extenuating circumstance surrounding it; I don't believe in abortion as birth control.
I also don't think it's a good idea to automatically give every woman who couldn't have an abortion (assuming Roe v. Wade was overturned) all these "perks" that the other woman who chose to keep their baby weren't entitled to.
DH and I weren't married when we got pregnant with DD. We didn't have any money saved and we both still lived with our parents. Abortion never entered our minds, we worked our butts off to get out of our parent's houses and provide for the life that we created. It wasn't easy, it still isn't sometimes. Money is tight, but we make it work.
Why should someone else in the same situation get government assistance automatically just because they weren't allowed to have an abortion? You would have to give it to every pregnant woman... You think they take out a lot of taxes from your pay check now?
I think they should reform abortion. I think it should be for extreme cases. Rape, incest, health reasons, etc. and not past 10 weeks (Unless there is a health reason for the mother later on).
I actually think we shoud allow it to the time an amnio is given.
Again, another hot topic. Why get an amnio? Honestly, DH and I were on the same page when I got PG.
We are older parents. This was our 1st child.
We had a responsibility to this child. As much as DH and I wanted a child, were not sure if we were going to have a child, we would not have kept a child with downs syndrome. We have no family to support/help us. What would happen to this child when we are older and could not take care of him?
Who here is going to take care of this kid except my DH and I?
I think it's easy to have idealistic ideas. It's another to tell someone else to deal with issues when it's not you who has to deal with them.
IMHO, I could never do it myself no matter the circumstance, I just know myself. That being said, I would never want the right taken away from every woman.
Your reasons would be the special cicumstance I was talking about. I still don't think it should be used as birth control. I met a woman once who had 5 abortions because her and her husband kept getting pregnant. That to me is what should NOT be allowed. It's great for her that she has the right to choose, but THAT is just stupid on her part.
I hope that a debate like this can be put to rest in the years to come by better educating our children so they don't have to make this choice some day.
I agree with you that there is a big difference between a person's own beliefs and what that person should want to see as the law. I'm definitley pro-choice. However, I am personally disgusted by people who carelessly have multiple abortions. I'm just not sure that the number of abortions a person can have is something that can or should be controlled by law. I can feel a certain way about what people do, but that does not mean that the behavior that I don't like should be banned.
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Posted 9/7/08 1:29 AM  |
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by donegal419
ETA: I didn't say it was an EASY choice, but I still think it's a selfish one.
Im a educated young woman. I used three forms of protection, pill, condom, and spermicide, and I still got pregnant at 20. So education does not completely eliminate unwanted pregnancies even though I DO BELIEVE WE NEED MORE SEX ED FROM THE SCHOOLS AND ESPECAILLY FROM THE PARENTS.
But back to the selfish comment,
-I knew I could not give my child a well deserved life if I had a baby when I was and still am technically a baby myself. THAT would have been selfish of me.
-To keep an unwanted pregnancy so that i would not feel guilty because everyone is telling me its wrong to have one, that to me is being selfish
-To keep an unwanted pregnancy and then know that there would be resentment or depression in my part and possilbly indirectly hurt the child emotionally, that to me is being selfish.
Nobody has the right to state that adoption is an alternative to an abortion unless you are in that situation, carry someone in you for 9 months, and then suddenly give him or her away. And even then, you don't know if that child is in a loving home or horrific foster are situation.
In the end, the only person who has a say in what I should do with my body is me, and nobody else.
IT WAS A HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE AND I DON'T WISH IT UPON MY WORST ENEMY, but it is a decision I know was right and I do not regret it and in my heart I don't believe I was selfish at all.
Message edited 9/7/2008 1:37:46 AM.
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| Posted 9/7/08 1:33 AM |
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VirginiaDeb
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Deb
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by QuoteTheRaven424
Posted by prncss
So, I'm aware that the alternatives to women having abortions are adoption and raising the baby themselves, but let's face it, when abortion was illegal in this country, women went to horrible lengths to terminate their pregnancies, anyway. I won't go into detail, as I'm sure we all know the history. But I'm just curious for those of you who want abortion to be illegal, how would you feel knowing that many girls would die trying to terminate their pregnancies or would be using back alley drs.? I'm just curious how everyone feels about that. And I truly am interested in hearing what you have to say, so please know I am not posting this to flame anyone, and I surely hope no one else will, either.
You know, I've given this alot of thought over the past year.
3-5 years ago, if you would have asked me my stance, I would have said, pro-life - make abortion illegal - case closed.
But then I thought about this EXACT point.
Fact is, you can make it illegal, and it won't go away, unfortunately. The back alley doctors would still be there, you'd have women leaving babies in dumpsters, or doing harmful things to themselves. And for the women that DID keep the kids, some may not be able to afford them and go on welfare.
So, I don't think making it illegal is the answer, because it wouldn't make it go away.
Now, if you ask me, my stance is "anti-abortion/pro-adoption"
While I feel abortion is morally wrong, I can't take it upon myself to make that decision for anyone else, because there are so many circumstances that I could never relate to. Until I've been in that position, I can't possibly tell someone what they can or can't do.
Plus, I happen to support the death penalty in some instances, so I can't very well be "pro-life" without being a hypocrite.
That being said, I think there should be less emphasis on trying to eliminate abortion, and more emphasis on increasing the options for women that are faced with that decision. More adoption education, and making domestic adoption less time-intensive and less costly in the US, so that people considering an abortion don't see it as the "only way out." There are millions of couples that are dying for a child - so if it was easier, maybe there'd be more cases of women choosing adoption over abortion.
And I realize that this isn't a given. Some wouldn't like the idea of having a child in the world from their lineage, who might come looking for them later. My point is, it would just help make women more informed before having to make that choice.
I completely agree!!
Women need to be better informed of their alternatives, and there needs to be more sex education - while this won't eliminate abortion, in the end it will probably decrease it.
I just don't understand WHY people are so hell bent on taking away somebody else's choice that it's become such a huge political issue.
In a perfect world women would get pregnant when they wanted to. Everyone would be financially and emotionally ready to be parents when they became pregnant. Teenagers would fully understand the consequences to their actions. Women would not be put into situations where they would feel that abortion would be the best solution.
But the world is not perfect.
I would never encourage anybody to have an abortion, but if a woman feels that it is the best decision for her, who are we to take that choice away?
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| Posted 9/7/08 2:25 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by Ophelia
I seems to me that the people on these boards aren't really aware of what the statistics are on adoption in this country...let alone the crippling regulations governing it.
That's the point I'm trying to make here.
The way it is now, it's almost like your d*mned if you do, and your d*mned if you don't.
If you abort the fetus, IMO, you're robbing the kid of life.
But, if you bring the kid in the world, and you are not fit to raise the child, either finanically or mentally, that's not fair either.
Now, I can't claim to know the ins and outs of foster care, nor did we get very far into the adoption process, though we did start to research it at one point.
But, it's the crippling regulations, the cost, and the time-intensiveness of it, that make it an overwhelming and less attractive option to someone faced with the decision.
While I don't necessarily agree that abortion is "selfish" in all cases, because there are so many cases you have to consider, I just wish there was more that could be done to make the adoption process smoother, and less costly - to better fund the foster care system - to give women with no family, no spouse, who have a child, or a special needs child, assistance beyond "saving the fetus."
If we're going to save the unborn fetus, it has to go beyond the womb. Because quality of life to me, is just as important.
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| Posted 9/7/08 8:37 AM |
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DirtyBlonde
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by donegal419
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by donegal419
Also, yes, there are lots of us, like yourself, that were not in the best financial situation when they had their first child. but like you said, you work hard and you MAKE IT WORK! most people, IMO, that have abortions are SELFISH and don't want to work hard to make it work. it would be "too hard" "too inconvenient."
I also think saying that all women that don't get abortions should be given assistance is ridiculous. i am sure there are many, many successful and extremely wealthy women that have had abortions because the baby would impede their jet-setting lifestyle.
wow
personally I have never had an abortion- but I find this pretty offensive
I am sure they are plenty of posters that have had an abortion and I doubt it was an easy selfish choice
but if it not a selfish choice, then most people wouldn't do it. how is abortion not a selfish choice?
ETA: I didn't say it was an EASY choice, but I still think it's a selfish one.
after having 2 children my aunt developed a serious medical condition and was told that having a third would kill her.
she dutifully used birth control but became pg three years later.
this was 20 years ago. she is haunted every single day by her choice to have an abortion.
if you find it selfish that she chose to live to raise her family - then i don't know what to say.
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| Posted 9/7/08 8:51 AM |
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DandN
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by greeneyes361708
I think using the examples of rape/incest is a red herring. The vast majority of abortions are performed on women who had consensual sex.
Sarah Palin is against abortion even in cases of rape and incest.
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| Posted 9/7/08 8:53 AM |
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MissJones
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
my concern if it ever became illegal is - dead babies found in dumpsters everyday.
it makes me sick when I hear it on the news every now and then. but if the option of abortion is not an option anymore, it's going to be a regular occurrence IMO 
You hit the nail on the head!!!
Barb-excellent point about the 15 year old father.
Abortion will never ever ever end. Drugs are illegal and holy $h!t, it's a major problem!!! Just because you make something illegal doesn't mean it won't still be done. People will find a way. Lysol and a wire hanger. If a girl is desperate enough, THAT is her alternative. And desperate times call for desperate measures. I don't have a daughter, but it would break my heart if THAT was her only choice. Parents and teachers can educate up the wazoo. Kids will still make bad choices. And then they have to make decisions regarding those bad choices. Abortion is NOT an easy decision for a 15 year old girl to make. It also isn't easy for a 25 year old woman to make. I know several people who got pg on BCP. SEVERAL. Some chose to keep, some chose not to. But the important thing was the choice. I NEVER want to see lysol and a wire hanger being the only choice a girl can have, because honestly...at 15, they are NOT going to mom and dad. 
And if they choose to hide a pregnancy, well, as SweetestofPeas said, you are going to see a lot more of dumpster babies.
The thing about being pro-choice is that it is, just that...a choice. As is adoption and keeping it. But for some people, THOSE are not the best choices and for some, the repurcussions that they will face then are even GREATER than abortion. Hence, it must be legal and safe.
I think one thing that education CAN do is educate that abortion IS NOT birth control.
ETA: Don...also, excellent answer! I appreciate it as well, coming from a male's POV.
Message edited 9/7/2008 9:12:52 AM.
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| Posted 9/7/08 9:09 AM |
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monkeybride
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
I don't like to tread on someone's religious beliefs but this just made no sense to me.
I have said this before and I will say it again. IMO most pro lifers are idealists. They think of the ideal outcome should someone keep a pregnancy. I'm sorry but generally that is not the outcome.
The baby isn't born and suddenly loved and has a fabulous life. People aren't lined up at the doors to adopt them.
What about crack babies? Most people don't want them. They get caught in the system and I'm sure there are a lot of babies caught in the system or being raised by addicts that probably have times where they wished they were never born.
Where does God come in there????
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| Posted 9/7/08 10:20 AM |
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monkeybride
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by DirtyBlonde
Posted by donegal419
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by donegal419
Also, yes, there are lots of us, like yourself, that were not in the best financial situation when they had their first child. but like you said, you work hard and you MAKE IT WORK! most people, IMO, that have abortions are SELFISH and don't want to work hard to make it work. it would be "too hard" "too inconvenient."
I also think saying that all women that don't get abortions should be given assistance is ridiculous. i am sure there are many, many successful and extremely wealthy women that have had abortions because the baby would impede their jet-setting lifestyle.
wow
personally I have never had an abortion- but I find this pretty offensive
I am sure they are plenty of posters that have had an abortion and I doubt it was an easy selfish choice
but if it not a selfish choice, then most people wouldn't do it. how is abortion not a selfish choice?
ETA: I didn't say it was an EASY choice, but I still think it's a selfish one.
after having 2 children my aunt developed a serious medical condition and was told that having a third would kill her.
she dutifully used birth control but became pg three years later.
this was 20 years ago. she is haunted every single day by her choice to have an abortion.
if you find it selfish that she chose to live to raise her family - then i don't know what to say.
I think that was a noble choice, probably the hardest choice she ever had to make in her life. 
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| Posted 9/7/08 10:20 AM |
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Ophelia
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
wow- another day and STILL no real answers to the OP except how terrible it is...how awful and unGodly it is to abort.
the hypocrisy of it truly makes me sick to my stomach.
I am blown away that people cannot understand the idea of CHOICE...how we embrace ANYTHING that helps a woman bring a child into the world where it will be LOVED, supported, and protected.
how pro choicers make themselves aware of the TRUE reality of the situation...of adoption...of being born into a family that wasn't prepared...
do you know that parents kill babies sometimes out of sheer exhaustion and frustration??? shaken baby syndrome isn't always b/c the woman is a monster...she is just out of her head with the overhelming responsibility, and physical and mentral drainage of having a child...exacerbatted at times by lack of a support system...
SUPPORT SYSTEM...that your govt and potential next Pres and VP shoot down again and again b/c it's too much government spending...
HYPOCRISY.
it's disgusting.
I'm sorry. it just is.
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| Posted 9/7/08 10:28 AM |
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KateDevine
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by monkeybride
I don't like to tread on someone's religious beliefs but this just made no sense to me.
I have said this before and I will say it again. IMO most pro lifers are idealists. They think of the ideal outcome should someone keep a pregnancy. I'm sorry but generally that is not the outcome.
The baby isn't born and suddenly loved and has a fabulous life. People aren't lined up at the doors to adopt them.
What about crack babies? Most people don't want them. They get caught in the system and I'm sure there are a lot of babies caught in the system or being raised by addicts that probably have times where they wished they were never born.
Where does God come in there????
Thank you! I totally agree with you. It is upsetting that pro-lifers say "deal with your actions" but the action is a life and why should someone grow up wishing they were never born?
Listen, I'd love to adopt, I cannot be pregnant again, but the SYSTEM keeps me from doing it. My BFF and her DH are the best people I know and the SYSTEM keeps them from adopting as well. It is a terrible thing
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| Posted 9/7/08 10:32 AM |
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QuoteTheRaven424
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by Ophelia
wow- another day and STILL no real answers to the OP except how terrible it is...how awful and unGodly it is to abort.
the hypocrisy of it truly makes me sick to my stomach.
I am blown away that people cannot understand the idea of CHOICE...how we embrace ANYTHING that helps a woman bring a child into the world where it will be LOVED, supported, and protected.
how pro choicers make themselves aware of the TRUE reality of the situation...of adoption...of being born into a family that wasn't prepared...
do you know that parents kill babies sometimes out of sheer exhaustion and frustration??? shaken baby syndrome isn't always b/c the woman is a monster...she is just out of her head with the overhelming responsibility, and physical and mentral drainage of having a child...exacerbatted at times by lack of a support system...
SUPPORT SYSTEM...that your govt and potential next Pres and VP shoot down again and again b/c it's too much government spending...
HYPOCRISY.
it's disgusting.
I'm sorry. it just is.
you apprently haven't been reading the points I have been trying to make
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:00 AM |
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MrsPorkChop
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
im pro choice, but in certain situations- rape incest and medial reasons.
however i dont think it should be used as birth control- i just dont. i think teenagers should have the babies and give them up for adoption. imagine how many couples out there wuold die to have a newborn baby. think about it- if all the babies saved from not having an abortion were given to wonderful families...it would be a wonderful thing
if roe v wade gets overturned, and it probably will, that means each state will then make it state law to legalize or to make abortions illegal. so if ny keeps it legal you are fine.
people dont understand that roe v wade was a judgement made at the height of the womens lib movement. the judges CREATED law which is what they are not supposed to to- they are just supposed to interpret law. the decision was made wrongfully. that is the politicians issues with it first and foremost. the religious side is actually an after thought. the rebpulicans expect judges to use the law and judge basis that, not ot create law. republicans want to keep the law as our founding fathrs wanted it- the democrats want to change the law.
so, all im saying is that even if roe v wade gets overturned, each state will then decide what happens with abortion, and i can assure you, NY will be keeping it legal.
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:19 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by MrsPorkChop
if roe v wade gets overturned, and it probably will, that means each state will then make it state law to legalize or to make abortions illegal. so if ny keeps it legal you are fine.
why do you think that it will?
in order for this to happen, a very compelling case against abortion would have to be brought before the supreme court - it would have to win a majority with them and then it would go to Congress.
I don't see this happening anytime soon if ever.
Message edited 9/7/2008 11:23:08 AM.
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:22 AM |
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MrsPorkChop
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by MrsPorkChop
if roe v wade gets overturned, and it probably will, that means each state will then make it state law to legalize or to make abortions illegal. so if ny keeps it legal you are fine.
why do you think that it will?
in order for this to happen, a very compelling case against abortion would have to be brought before the supreme court - it would have to win a majority with them and then it would go to Congress.
I don't see this happening anytime soon if ever.
i should have said, "if john mccain is elected....it probably will"
This is what he believes"
John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.
Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.
Message edited 9/7/2008 11:25:16 AM.
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:25 AM |
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Cpt2007
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by MrsPorkChop
if roe v wade gets overturned, and it probably will, that means each state will then make it state law to legalize or to make abortions illegal. so if ny keeps it legal you are fine.
why do you think that it will?
in order for this to happen, a very compelling case against abortion would have to be brought before the supreme court - it would have to win a majority with them and then it would go to Congress.
I don't see this happening anytime soon if ever.
If the next administration is committed to over turning it (as it appears that McCain and Palin totally are), then when they replace the very LIKELY 2-3 SCOTUS justices that will retire in the next 4 years, then we will see it gone in a nanosecond.
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:26 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by MrsPorkChop
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by MrsPorkChop
if roe v wade gets overturned, and it probably will, that means each state will then make it state law to legalize or to make abortions illegal. so if ny keeps it legal you are fine.
why do you think that it will?
in order for this to happen, a very compelling case against abortion would have to be brought before the supreme court - it would have to win a majority with them and then it would go to Congress.
I don't see this happening anytime soon if ever.
i should have said, "if john mccain is elected....it probably will"
This is what he believes"
John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.
Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.
Bush is a lot more conservative than McCain and even he didn't do anything about Roe v Wade
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:58 AM |
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donegal419
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by Beth1210
but if it not a selfish choice, then most people wouldn't do it. how is abortion not a selfish choice?
ETA: I didn't say it was an EASY choice, but I still think it's a selfish one.
Wow, just wow!
Until you walk in someone's shoes you shouldn't judge.
And your Let go and Let god comment in your previous post gets another WOW from me. Really? I see too many suffering, neglected babies to think we should all let go and let god.
thank you monkeybride for calling that one out- I was  when I read that myself
you know what, i am done commenting on this topic on these boards. clearly, people with a pro-life, religious view on the topic of abortion are not allowed to have an opinion on this board. i am constantly misconstrued on these boards and attacked so I will end here with one last attempt to explain my view:
I do believe that life begins at conception. I do believe that abortion is wrong at any stage. I do believe that a pregnancy is God's plan, not ours. I do believe that the pro-choice movement is not just about giving women a choice, but rather, it has profound effects on the MORAL fiber of our nation. If we can kill HUMANS up until the 6th month where they CAN live outside the womb...what's next? I think it leaves us in a sad state of affairs.
HOWEVER, my above beliefs do not make me naive enough to think that there are women out there who have had abortions that have gone through hell and back. I am at not naive enough to think that some of these babies, if they are born, they are born into difficult environments and will probably need assistance of some sort from the government or the community. I am not naive enough to think that some babies that are born do have profound disabilities and it will take a lot more love and work to raise them. I am not naive enough to think that it would be hard as hell to be pregnant for 9 months and have to give away that baby up for adoption. I am not naive enough to think that there are situations where the baby has a severe abnormality and could be born and then quickly die and the pain of that for the mother and the possible health risks for her. I understand all of those heart wrenching scenarios, but IMO they are not enough to for me to allow abortion, particularly when the extenuating circumstances are no where near the majority of abortions. social reasons account for approximately 93% of abortions, not mother's heath or rape/incest and nearly half of all abortions are done on women that have already had one and 7% are done on women that have had 3 or more..
That's it... end of story. I hope I've explained myself well, but this is the last time I will comment on this thread because I feel like  anytime I try to explain because I get attacked and that's not fair. I have not attacked those of you with pro-choice views (yes, i've countered some of your opinions) but I never said WOW! OMG! which to me translates as "She's crazy" or "What an idiot". That's not fair.
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:58 AM |
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SweetestOfPeas
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by Cpt2007
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by MrsPorkChop
if roe v wade gets overturned, and it probably will, that means each state will then make it state law to legalize or to make abortions illegal. so if ny keeps it legal you are fine.
why do you think that it will?
in order for this to happen, a very compelling case against abortion would have to be brought before the supreme court - it would have to win a majority with them and then it would go to Congress.
I don't see this happening anytime soon if ever.
If the next administration is committed to over turning it (as it appears that McCain and Palin totally are), then when they replace the very LIKELY 2-3 SCOTUS justices that will retire in the next 4 years, then we will see it gone in a nanosecond.
but that's not how it would happen. like I said above, it would have to be overturned if a compelling case was brough to the Supreme Court, they won and then it would have to go before Congress.
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| Posted 9/7/08 11:59 AM |
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Bellabear
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by donegal419
Also, yes, there are lots of us, like yourself, that were not in the best financial situation when they had their first child. but like you said, you work hard and you MAKE IT WORK! most people, IMO, that have abortions are SELFISH and don't want to work hard to make it work. it would be "too hard" "too inconvenient."
I also think saying that all women that don't get abortions should be given assistance is ridiculous. i am sure there are many, many successful and extremely wealthy women that have had abortions because the baby would impede their jet-setting lifestyle.
wow
personally I have never had an abortion- but I find this pretty offensive
I am sure they are plenty of posters that have had an abortion and I doubt it was an easy selfish choice
I find that pretty offensive as wel. how can you say that the woman is being selfish. you are entitled to your opinion but i don't think you should go as far on these kind of boards to say that it's a selfish thing and it's just inconvenient for the women to have the baby.
i don't care how much money someone has...i can't imagine that having an abortion is an "easy" thing to do.
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| Posted 9/7/08 12:07 PM |
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monkeybride
My Everything
Member since 5/05 20541 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by donegal419
Posted by Beth1210
but if it not a selfish choice, then most people wouldn't do it. how is abortion not a selfish choice?
ETA: I didn't say it was an EASY choice, but I still think it's a selfish one.
Wow, just wow!
Until you walk in someone's shoes you shouldn't judge.
And your Let go and Let god comment in your previous post gets another WOW from me. Really? I see too many suffering, neglected babies to think we should all let go and let god.
thank you monkeybride for calling that one out- I was when I read that myself
you know what, i am done commenting on this topic on these boards. clearly, people with a pro-life, religious view on the topic of abortion are not allowed to have an opinion on this board. i am constantly misconstrued on these boards and attacked so I will end here with one last attempt to explain my view:
I do believe that life begins at conception. I do believe that abortion is wrong at any stage. I do believe that a pregnancy is God's plan, not ours. I do believe that the pro-choice movement is not just about giving women a choice, but rather, it has profound effects on the MORAL fiber of our nation. If we can kill HUMANS up until the 6th month where they CAN live outside the womb...what's next? I think it leaves us in a sad state of affairs.
HOWEVER, my above beliefs do not make me naive enough to think that there are women out there who have had abortions that have gone through hell and back. I am at not naive enough to think that some of these babies, if they are born, they are born into difficult environments and will probably need assistance of some sort from the government or the community. I am not naive enough to think that some babies that are born do have profound disabilities and it will take a lot more love and work to raise them. I am not naive enough to think that it would be hard as hell to be pregnant for 9 months and have to give away that baby up for adoption. I am not naive enough to think that there are situations where the baby has a severe abnormality and could be born and then quickly die and the pain of that for the mother and the possible health risks for her. I understand all of those heart wrenching scenarios, but IMO they are not enough to for me to allow abortion, particularly when the extenuating circumstances are no where near the majority of abortions. social reasons account for approximately 93% of abortions, not mother's heath or rape/incest and nearly half of all abortions are done on women that have already had one and 7% are done on women that have had 3 or more..
That's it... end of story. I hope I've explained myself well, but this is the last time I will comment on this thread because I feel like anytime I try to explain because I get attacked and that's not fair. I have not attacked those of you with pro-choice views (yes, i've countered some of your opinions) but I never said WOW! OMG! which to me translates as "She's crazy" or "What an idiot". That's not fair.
I really wasn't trying to offend you. I honestly was shocked at your comments. But you are entitled to your beliefs. I just haven't seen God save so many children who are abused, neglected and/or caught in the system. That's where my point lies.
I just think that the 93% of abortions that are done for social reasons is the reason that abortion should remain legal. I can't imagine the state of affairs if all those people were forced to have babies they didn't want. That's what my point was. I wasn't even talking about the rare cases. I was talking about the every day abortions. Those babies are probably better off not being born in a lot of those situations.
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| Posted 9/7/08 12:11 PM |
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PreshusSmurf
So in love with my little guys
Member since 1/07 2963 total posts
Name:
Jess
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by donegal419
anytime I try to explain because I get attacked and that's not fair. I have not attacked those of you with pro-choice views (yes, i've countered some of your opinions) but I never said WOW! OMG! which to me translates as "She's crazy" or "What an idiot". That's not fair.
I'm sorry that you feel "attacked" ...
But I honestly believe that the "attacks" were started on your end.
How is saying that anyone who makes the CHOICE to not continue the pregnancy is SELFISH not an attack? 
Message edited 9/7/2008 12:15:29 PM.
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| Posted 9/7/08 12:14 PM |
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dandr10199
Grace is growing up too fast!
Member since 10/05 11561 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by emilain
Posted by monkeybride
Posted by emilain
I am totally PRO Life and I would hope that it would be a deterrant for females. Just like DUI, don;t want to kill yourself or someone else, or get arrested? Then don't drive OR come up with an alternative. We need to take responsibility for our actions and not given an "easy out" to deal with poor decision making.
Why do pro life people say abortion is the easy way out? You're the second person on these boards to use that term.
I really don't think most women who have had an abortion looked at it as an easy way out. I'm sure it was an heart wrenching, life altering decision for them to make.
You're right, it must be a tough decision to make, but keeping the child takes on much more responsibility, and is FAR more life altering.
I agree with emilan. It would be a deterant. I also feel that giving up a child for adoption is life altering, gut wrenching AND a selfless, heroic act.
I KNOW what is is like not to have anymore children. I also have a friend who is on bed rest with placenta previa, trying to save the life of her sweet baby girl who they found out has downs via amino. Everyone around her thinks she is crazy for going through this and NOT aborting, not me.
Anyone ever think, WHY so many women adopt from countries outside the US??? There are simply not enough newborn babies or babies under 1 yr old in the country who are not born with fetal alcohol syndrome, addicted to drugs, etc. Plus the laws in this country for adoption are INSANE. you can love a child, have it as your own and the mother can come back up to a year later in some states and take the child away.
If you go to China, yeah you have to stay there for a few weeks and go through paperwork and whatnot, but the mother cannot come back after the adoption is final to take the child from you. Also, they make sure the children are healthy and IF they have a illness they let you know.
Plus, now they are saying if you have a medical condition you cannot adopt from China, Ukraine, and some other places. DOES ANYONE know what it is like to be told that you cannot adopt from a foregin country b/c of a preexisiting medical condition, YET there are not enough babies in the US to adopt so the mother who give them up can place them with families who do not have a child already, or with a mom who is not "sick" or to whoever has the biggest bank account. If abortion was illegal, I believe that this situation would not exist for me, for friends and family that really want a baby and cannot have one for whatever reason.
Plus, the baby is Innocent. I mean there was a thread about Palin being a hunter, a lot of folks were disgusted that she would shoot an "innocent animal" yet we are willing to kill the most innocent of all...a defenseless baby. I just do not get it.
Yes, ladies it is YOUR body and YOUR choice and YOUR decision I cannot help but think... for lack of a better term, it seems like you are murdering an innocent life. A life that some people are praying daily for and would give ANYTHING they had just to love that baby. WHY? because it is inconvenient? Because you were not ready for a baby? because it is "easier" on you to kill a baby then to adopt the baby out to someone who would love it? I have heard people say that I could not live with "knowing my baby is out there with another family", but can you live with knowing that you killed your baby? How is that easier? It does not make sense to me.
This is JMHO. some of you actually asked WHY pro-lifers feel they way they do. This is just how I feel about it. It boils down to I cannot see how it is easier kill your baby than to give it up for adoption?
BOTH are HARD but killing a baby...I could not look at myself in the mirror every day for the rest of MY life and not hate myself for that. There is a HUGE difference between killing an innocent baby and corporal punishment (killing someone who has committed a horrific crime - like raping and murdering a child) or hunting a moose. I am on the fence about corporal punishment, but to use the arguement that pro-lifers are a walking contradiction, is ludicrous. The difference is ONE life is completely innocent and the other committed a horrific crime. Yes there are people who are wrongfully accused, but if there is DNA evidence and it proves 100% that a person committed a rape and murder of a child (or any other horrific crime) I am all for wiping then off the face of the earth and letting them rot in h3ll. Again, just my honest opinion.
ETA: I really tried to answer your original question, Rach. I have a lot of respect for you to ASK the pro-lifers about why they feel the way they do instead of attacking.  As I wrote this the tears are streaming down my cheeks and I am so so so sad. Whenever I hear about someone having an abortion, I feel as though someone pouched me in the stomach and knocked the wind out of me. I saw Gracie's heartbeat via internal sono at 5 weeks pregnant. It was one of the best days of my life. How can anyone see that flicker and NOT be completely in AWE of that miracle?
Can a pro-choicer out there answer that??? I heard and saw a heartbeat. I heard and saw life. I legitimately WANT to know how you can switch off your emotions and say, "that is not a life" at 5 weeks? Then terminate that life. I am really trying to get it and I cannot wrap my brain around it. PLEASE someone, tell me how that is even possible.
Message edited 9/7/2008 6:22:44 PM.
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| Posted 9/7/08 6:07 PM |
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bluegreen08
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/07 574 total posts
Name:
a
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
I really hate the idea of abortion -- issues like gay marriage it's really hard for me to see the other side and take them seriously, but abortion I'm much more toward the middle. However, I am 100% pro choice because I don't think the choice should be taken away from all of the women in this country.
Unfortunately, many of the people who are "pro life" are the same people who want abstinence-only sex ed, limited access to condoms or birth control, no access to emergency contraception, etc.
I really see the best solution to be COMPREHENSIVE SEX EDUCATION, easy access to birth control, knowledge about EC (it is NOT the same thing as an abortion and wont terminate an existing pregnancy) and availability. Abortion should be rare but safe. That's my opinion
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| Posted 9/7/08 6:17 PM |
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monkeybride
My Everything
Member since 5/05 20541 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spin-off to abortion posts....What's the alternative?
Posted by dandr10199
Can a pro-choicer out there answer that??? I heard and saw a heartbeat. I heard and saw life. I legitimately WANT to know how you can switch off your emotions and say, "that is not a life" at 5 weeks? Then terminate that life. I am really trying to get it and I cannot wrap my brain around it. PLEASE someone, tell me how that is even possible.
Because that heartbeat is nothing outside of your body. IMO it's not life. Maybe it's the start of the process the eventually becomes life at birth but that little flicker is not life.
Yes when you want a baby it's so great and such a relief to see that heartbeat but when you don't want a baby it really doesn't mean quite the same thing.
I'm sorry you can't have anymore children, I really am but that doesn't mean that other people should have to have children they don't want. There are plenty of babies to be adopted in the US, problem is a lot of them have special needs because they were born to drug addicted parents and what not. Those babies get caught in the system. I know this because I see them fostered all the time by patients of mine. Never get adopted though. How sad.
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| Posted 9/7/08 7:30 PM |
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