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Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

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Arieschick29
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Jen

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by MissJones

I just can't for the life of me believe this. I can't sit here and call her a monster or a selfish murderer because I just can NOT fathom how a 36 year old MOTHER would do this.

I'm sure there a PLENTY of parents here who can out-drink most men. I am SURE there are plenty of parents on here who occasionally light up a joint. But I would bet my life that nobody here would even DREAM of doing both while driving 5 kids in a car. Therefore, I just can't see how this woman, who seemed like the picture of good family values, would do THIS.

Part of me still wants to hold out hope that this toxicology report is a really sad mistake. Chat Icon I can't sit and judge this woman because maybe I am too naive to believe that this mom could and would do that. Chat Icon




I am with you! I just feel like something is really fishy about this whole situation and maybe I'm naive but I will not call her any names until we know for sure what happened.

Posted 8/5/09 10:10 PM
 
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Kierasmom
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Jenn

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by Beth

Posted by Kierasmom

Posted by Beth

Unless the husband forced her to drink- I can not imagine holding an adult repsonsible for a 36 year old womans actions

Would you think that if it was the husband who crashed? I highly doubt it

The person who is responsible for the is the woman who did it...if a man did it- no one would be blaming the wife



I think it depends on the circumstances. I think if the wife was drinking with the husband and let the husband drive people would blame her as well. Yes it was her choice to drive. But her husband should have taken away her keys if he knew she was drunk.



I agree- but that's not what happened here- 4 hours + had past since they were together

4 hours is a long time

from the tox report- she was drinking and smoking while driving....

if her husband knew she was drunk- I highly doubt he would have let her take his kids



Understood. That's why I said he should only be held responsible if he was drinking with her or if he knew she had a drinking problem. The NY Post reports today that people are coming out now saying she was a regular at a bar and would often drink and complain about her marriage. Now is it possible her husband didn't know she was going to the bar? Sure it's possible. But I doubt it. We need to know more about their story before we can judge if the husband should be held responsible.

Posted 8/6/09 7:11 AM
 

sleepie76
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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

I don't know if the husband can be held responsible. But I'm sure he is holding himself responsible for this accident. As he should be.


I'm sorry, but this isn't someone who had a couple of vodka &cranberries on vacation. She drank an entire bottle of vodka STRAIGHT. She's an alcoholic. I find it hard to believe that the husband did not know she had a drinking problem. You don't let someone drive 5 children home that has a serious drinking problem.

You can't live with an alcoholic on a day to day basis & not know it is happening. I say this from personal experience. You can hide it from the outside family, but not the immediate family.

Posted 8/6/09 8:00 AM
 

Ali1
Mommy

Member since 8/05

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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

What I am having a hard time reconcilling here is even if she did have a alcohol problem/drug problem why would she drink like she did that early in the mornng with 5 kids in her car. I have lived with many alcoholics, but everyone I have known would never binge drink like that, early in the morning and with kids in the car. I feel like she was doing this because her husband was not in the car and she could "get away with it".

If she has a problem like we think she did, why not just drive home everyone from the camp, get home at noon and start your drinking in the backyard?? That is why I can't get my arms around this. It's a pretty quick drive home...why not just wait and why jeopardize those kids????

I have only come to two conclusiions...either she was trying to kill herself and was using the alcohol and pot to do it or she really hid her alcohol problem good and just went too far this time.

The fact is she had to plan to have that liquor bottle in the car (no store is open that early) and she was drinking vodka that does not smell. Makes me think that while her husband might have known she liked to get her drink on, never knew the extent of it. That is why I think she was binging because she hid the extent of the problem from her husband/family.

Still.....I just can't even fathom how a mother could do this to her own children and her brother's children.

Posted 8/6/09 9:37 AM
 

Tumbalina
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Member since 2/06

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Angela

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by Kierasmom

Posted by Beth

Posted by Kierasmom

Posted by Beth

Unless the husband forced her to drink- I can not imagine holding an adult repsonsible for a 36 year old womans actions

Would you think that if it was the husband who crashed? I highly doubt it

The person who is responsible for the is the woman who did it...if a man did it- no one would be blaming the wife



I think it depends on the circumstances. I think if the wife was drinking with the husband and let the husband drive people would blame her as well. Yes it was her choice to drive. But her husband should have taken away her keys if he knew she was drunk.



I agree- but that's not what happened here- 4 hours + had past since they were together

4 hours is a long time

from the tox report- she was drinking and smoking while driving....

if her husband knew she was drunk- I highly doubt he would have let her take his kids



Understood. That's why I said he should only be held responsible if he was drinking with her or if he knew she had a drinking problem. The NY Post reports today that people are coming out now saying she was a regular at a bar and would often drink and complain about her marriage. Now is it possible her husband didn't know she was going to the bar? Sure it's possible. But I doubt it. We need to know more about their story before we can judge if the husband should be held responsible.



A regular at a bar? Chat Icon
OMG it gets worse an worse.
Thise poor children and men Chat Icon

Posted 8/6/09 9:40 AM
 

HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron

Member since 4/07

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baby fish mouth

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by sleepie76

You can't live with an alcoholic on a day to day basis & not know it is happening.



yes you absolutely can.

Posted 8/6/09 9:55 AM
 

jenheartsrob
LIF Adult

Member since 5/06

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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Husband wants her body exhumed for independent autopsy:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/06/2009-08-06_husband_will_ask_to_exhume_wifes_body_in_disbelief_of_drug_find_vics_families_se.html

If he TRULY had NO idea that she had even the slightest abuse problem, this has to be simply as unfathomable to him and the family as it is to us.

Posted 8/6/09 9:56 AM
 

Ali1
Mommy

Member since 8/05

3116 total posts

Name:

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by HeathKernandez

Posted by sleepie76

You can't live with an alcoholic on a day to day basis & not know it is happening.



yes you absolutely can. [/QUOTE

I agree that it's hard to not know someone has a problem with drinking, but it's very easy to never know the extent of someone's drinking.

Posted 8/6/09 9:57 AM
 

mrsej
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Mommy

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

The DH is having another autopsy done and is claiiming that her reckless behavior has to do with undiagnosed diabetes. She allegedly had gestational diabetes. To me, that is a crazy excuse. There a ton of women on this board that had gestational diabetes and couple of people on this board who have type 1 diabetes (me included) - i don't think anyone of those people have acted this recklessly as a result of their condition. In addition, the family said she had no health issues.
I heard in conversations that according to reports and video from McDonalds, she was completely fine. Also, she called her brother, was totally not making sense, calling him by the wrong name and when her niece got on the phone she stated that her aunt was acting crazy, driving crazy and was acting sick. Very sad that the 9 year old knew what was going on. The DH did state that they were drinking on Friday night,but that he only had two beers and she only had two vodkas with cranberry juice and that she would only smoke pot when she was stressed b/c of work or the kids. However, supposedly the amount of marijuana in her system was the most the medical examiner ever reported seeing in the 20 years she has been doing this. Very disturbing.

Posted 8/6/09 10:03 AM
 

anonttcer
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Meaning a NON ttcer!

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by mrsej

The DH is having another autopsy done and is claiiming that her reckless behavior has to do with undiagnosed diabetes. She allegedly had gestational diabetes. To me, that is a crazy excuse. There a ton of women on this board that had gestational diabetes and couple of people on this board who have type 1 diabetes (me included) - i don't think anyone of those people have acted this recklessly as a result of their condition. In addition, the family said she had no health issues.
I heard in conversations that according to reports and video from McDonalds, she was completely fine. Also, she called her brother, was totally not making sense, calling him by the wrong name and when her niece got on the phone she stated that her aunt was acting crazy, driving crazy and was acting sick. Very sad that the 9 year old knew what was going on. The DH did state that they were drinking on Friday night,but that he only had two beers and she only had two vodkas with cranberry juice and that she would only smoke pot when she was stressed b/c of work or the kids. However, supposedly the amount of marijuana in her system was the most the medical examiner ever reported seeing in the 20 years she has been doing this. Very disturbing.



What a load of BS!
They were trying to claim undiagnosed diabetes in the beginning too.
That i can see- if she had some sort of diabetic episode that caused her to get confused, disoriented and crash- yes, absolutely.
But to say that the diabetes is what CAUSED her to drink and smoke like that while driving- please. Come on.
Grasp at straws much?
Ridiculous...

Posted 8/6/09 10:07 AM
 

twiceasnice
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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by mrsej

The DH is having another autopsy done and is claiiming that her reckless behavior has to do with undiagnosed diabetes. She allegedly had gestational diabetes. To me, that is a crazy excuse.



I think he is in denial. How can the bottle of vodka in the car be explained? The cops didn't make a mistake with that.

They still have to search the campground and I am sure they will find some type of leftovers from pot smoking.

I really don't think he knew what was going on. I can't believe he would approve of his wife driving her brother's car, brother's kids and his own kids if he knew she was mentally unstable and addicted to alcohol. I am sure everyone is racking their brains for signs that they may have missed and no matter what in the end everyone is a victim.

Chat Icon

Posted 8/6/09 10:15 AM
 

sleepie76
enjoying every minute

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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by HeathKernandez

Posted by sleepie76

You can't live with an alcoholic on a day to day basis & not know it is happening.



yes you absolutely can.




I'm sorry but I dont see how you could.
I always knew, guests at my house always knew.

Even when I went to a friend's house with an alcoholic, I could always tell. And these are functional alcoholics, full time jobs, functional during the day.

Maybe not know the extent of the drinking, but alcoholism has affects on the entire household.

They leave a trail... empty bottles, slurring, staggering, mood swings. On bad nights, smashed cups/plates, falls, trips to the emergency room etc.

I remember as a child thinking "wow, ____'s mom acted really weird some nights."
When I got older is when I realized it was the drinking.

Posted 8/6/09 10:17 AM
 

annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult

Member since 4/09

3272 total posts

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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by mrsej

The DH is having another autopsy done and is claiiming that her reckless behavior has to do with undiagnosed diabetes. She allegedly had gestational diabetes. To me, that is a crazy excuse. There a ton of women on this board that had gestational diabetes and couple of people on this board who have type 1 diabetes (me included) - i don't think anyone of those people have acted this recklessly as a result of their condition. In addition, the family said she had no health issues.
I heard in conversations that according to reports and video from McDonalds, she was completely fine. Also, she called her brother, was totally not making sense, calling him by the wrong name and when her niece got on the phone she stated that her aunt was acting crazy, driving crazy and was acting sick. Very sad that the 9 year old knew what was going on. The DH did state that they were drinking on Friday night,but that he only had two beers and she only had two vodkas with cranberry juice and that she would only smoke pot when she was stressed b/c of work or the kids. However, supposedly the amount of marijuana in her system was the most the medical examiner ever reported seeing in the 20 years she has been doing this. Very disturbing.



I'm sorry, are we to believe that an autopsy can uncover pot in the system and vodka in the gut but WOULDN'T uncover diabeties?

Message edited 8/6/2009 10:51:48 AM.

Posted 8/6/09 10:29 AM
 

smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!

Member since 5/06

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me

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by sleepie76

Posted by HeathKernandez

Posted by sleepie76

You can't live with an alcoholic on a day to day basis & not know it is happening.



yes you absolutely can.




I'm sorry but I dont see how you could.
I always knew, guests at my house always knew.

Even when I went to a friend's house with an alcoholic, I could always tell. And these are functional alcoholics, full time jobs, functional during the day.

Maybe not know the extent of the drinking, but alcoholism has affects on the entire household.

They leave a trail... empty bottles, slurring, staggering, mood swings. On bad nights, smashed cups/plates, falls, trips to the emergency room etc.

I remember as a child thinking "wow, ____'s mom acted really weird some nights."
When I got older is when I realized it was the drinking.




You can disguise drugs but it's really hard with alcohol but alcoholics CANNOT limit themself to 1 drink. THEY CAN'T!

Posted 8/6/09 10:34 AM
 

greenfreak
.

Member since 9/06

11483 total posts

Name:
greenfreak

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Let's not go overboard categorizing all alcoholics, they're not all exactly the same, and neither are all home situations. There are a ton of variables, and people drink in different ways. Binge drinkers, drinking in solitude, social drinking, etc. None of us lived in that house, we can't say for sure what was or was not the situation.

Speculation is one thing, but claiming to know exactly how all alcoholics and their families live is silly and a little insulting to the people here who live it every day.

I have a lot of experience with alcoholism and alcoholics in my life from childhood too but I have no experience with their family, so I can't definitively say how things were there and neither can anyone else here.

Posted 8/6/09 11:40 AM
 

HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron

Member since 4/07

9091 total posts

Name:
baby fish mouth

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by sleepie76

Posted by HeathKernandez

Posted by sleepie76

You can't live with an alcoholic on a day to day basis & not know it is happening.



yes you absolutely can.




I'm sorry but I dont see how you could.
I always knew, guests at my house always knew.

Even when I went to a friend's house with an alcoholic, I could always tell. And these are functional alcoholics, full time jobs, functional during the day.

Maybe not know the extent of the drinking, but alcoholism has affects on the entire household.

They leave a trail... empty bottles, slurring, staggering, mood swings. On bad nights, smashed cups/plates, falls, trips to the emergency room etc.

I remember as a child thinking "wow, ____'s mom acted really weird some nights."
When I got older is when I realized it was the drinking.




yeah but that's YOU. Not all alcoholics are the same...read what greenfreak wrote... that's almost exactly what I mean...

Posted 8/6/09 11:48 AM
 

smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!

Member since 5/06

32461 total posts

Name:
me

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by greenfreak

Let's not go overboard categorizing all alcoholics, they're not all exactly the same, and neither are all home situations. There are a ton of variables, and people drink in different ways. Binge drinkers, drinking in solitude, social drinking, etc. None of us lived in that house, we can't say for sure what was or was not the situation.

Speculation is one thing, but claiming to know exactly how all alcoholics and their families live is silly and a little insulting to the people here who live it every day.

I have a lot of experience with alcoholism and alcoholics in my life from childhood too but I have no experience with their family, so I can't definitively say how things were there and neither can anyone else here.



This woman was an alcoholic. There is no way a "normal" person could even function with the level of alcohol in her blood. I could not even walk to a car with that alcohol level.

Posted 8/6/09 11:48 AM
 

HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron

Member since 4/07

9091 total posts

Name:
baby fish mouth

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by smdl

Posted by greenfreak

Let's not go overboard categorizing all alcoholics, they're not all exactly the same, and neither are all home situations. There are a ton of variables, and people drink in different ways. Binge drinkers, drinking in solitude, social drinking, etc. None of us lived in that house, we can't say for sure what was or was not the situation.

Speculation is one thing, but claiming to know exactly how all alcoholics and their families live is silly and a little insulting to the people here who live it every day.

I have a lot of experience with alcoholism and alcoholics in my life from childhood too but I have no experience with their family, so I can't definitively say how things were there and neither can anyone else here.



This woman was an alcoholic. There is no way a "normal" person could even function with the level of alcohol in her blood. I could not even walk to a car with that alcohol level.



I think she meant speculation about whether or not the family knew...

Posted 8/6/09 11:50 AM
 

greenfreak
.

Member since 9/06

11483 total posts

Name:
greenfreak

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by HeathKernandez

Posted by smdl

Posted by greenfreak

Let's not go overboard categorizing all alcoholics, they're not all exactly the same, and neither are all home situations. There are a ton of variables, and people drink in different ways. Binge drinkers, drinking in solitude, social drinking, etc. None of us lived in that house, we can't say for sure what was or was not the situation.

Speculation is one thing, but claiming to know exactly how all alcoholics and their families live is silly and a little insulting to the people here who live it every day.

I have a lot of experience with alcoholism and alcoholics in my life from childhood too but I have no experience with their family, so I can't definitively say how things were there and neither can anyone else here.



This woman was an alcoholic. There is no way a "normal" person could even function with the level of alcohol in her blood. I could not even walk to a car with that alcohol level.



I think she meant speculation about whether or not the family knew...



That was what I was referring to, thanks. Chat Icon

Sophie, how do you define an alcoholic?

Posted 8/6/09 12:02 PM
 

justme4u
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Member since 8/08

575 total posts

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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by Mrs-D-Girl

Posted by Goobster

Posted by Beth

Posted by Ophelia



Her husband I feel nothing for. I highly doubt she was smoking and boozing on her own.




what makes you say that?

just b/c 2 people are married doesn't mean that are both addicts.....trust me



I agree with Ophelia. They were there together. Even if he wasn't doing the drugs/drinking WITH her, he HAD to know as they were there together. So he had to either be participating or simply KNOW and STILL allow her to drive. Bottom line.Chat Icon



From what I read, they were not there together. The Father was on a Fishing Trip and did not go that weekend.



I first read that they werew separate and he on a fishing trip. Then i read that they were together at the campsite and he was going to be meeting her that evening at home for dinner. IF he was there, he had to have known she was drinking. I wonder if she drove home from that campsite every weekend as they say, if she had driven home from there drunk before, and if so, did anyone know about it? So sad

Posted 8/6/09 12:15 PM
 

justme4u
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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by MrsRbk

Posted by 5ofClubs



And now it makes sense why they did the funeral so soon. It was practically overnight. They knew this was going to come out and wanted a "peaceful" ceremony.



That doesn't mean anything... I don't know what religion they were, but if they were Jewish, jewish funerals typically take place the day following a death or very soon thereafter.

I'm sick over this story....
Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon



not Jewish the funeral was at a church where the kids were baptized

Posted 8/6/09 12:22 PM
 

NS1976
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Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

I could be totally off...

But I think she was a drinker/smoker..thats kind of obvious. But I have a feeling that something set her off to do this in the car. I have a feeling that she found something out about her husband or maybe a huge fight over something. Did he ever go on a fishing trip? Was that confirmed?? I feel like they had a big fight before leaving the campground...resulting in him leaving first. Who knows but I feel like so much more of this story is going to come out in pieces..and its not going to bed good.

Posted 8/6/09 12:32 PM
 

hazeleyes33
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Ginger

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by greenfreak

Let's not go overboard categorizing all alcoholics, they're not all exactly the same, and neither are all home situations. There are a ton of variables, and people drink in different ways. Binge drinkers, drinking in solitude, social drinking, etc. None of us lived in that house, we can't say for sure what was or was not the situation.

Speculation is one thing, but claiming to know exactly how all alcoholics and their families live is silly and a little insulting to the people here who live it every day.

I have a lot of experience with alcoholism and alcoholics in my life from childhood too but I have no experience with their family, so I can't definitively say how things were there and neither can anyone else here.




But what about the smoking? She could NOT be an occasional pot smoker to be smoking that early AND in front of her kids.
I just find it hard to believe that she could function on that much alcohol and drugs and NO ONE knew it!!
Can't wait to see what story they are going to tell at 1pm. I am sure it is that she was depressed and drank for that or that she had PPD and drank for that.
Whatever it is, I am not sure I am going to believe it.

Posted 8/6/09 12:44 PM
 

smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!

Member since 5/06

32461 total posts

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me

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

Posted by greenfreak

Sophie, how do you define an alcoholic?



My dad, both his parents, both my uncles, and ex BF (probably the worst of all of them!). Many people will have different definition.

For me, it's always dismissing how much you can or SHOULD drink. They can ALWAYS have another drink. When asked, they will tell you it won't affect them. They are used to it. They can drive. They did it many many times.

They are usually in denial with the amount of alcohol consumed.

Yet, it's true that they can function VERY well with JUST 5 beers. It would take me 2 glasses to be drunk. It would take them 15. They are usually very functional. It takes A LOT of alcohol for them to show signs.

Over time I have learn to recognized who drinks what just by looking at them or "smelling" them.

Posted 8/6/09 12:44 PM
 

mrsej
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Mommy

Re: Cross post - Toxicology reports for the Taconic Crash in

The westchester newspaper just reported that the medical examiner's office stated that they stand by their results and that they ruled out stroke, diabetes and any other medical problems. In fact, they said that the what the police thought could be high levels of sugar in her eye fluid was actually alcohol. The medical examiner also said that there was no evidence of a tooth abscess. I just don't believe the medical examiner could be completely wrong. If this gives the husband "peace" (if that is the appropriate word) than he should do it, but I really doubt the results will change.

Posted 8/6/09 12:48 PM
 
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