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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
I am not trying to justify anything, I am just pointing out that everyone is assuming the worst. What strippers do not have friends? It is entirely possible that this particular person knew them.
DH & I both worked in night clubs for many years, and know many people who work in many professions. I just think that people automatically assume the worst when they hear the word "stripper." It is not the worst profession in the world, nor does it automatically make her irresponsible or promiscuous, nor does it immediately make him a "john." Could it have been, yes, but I still think that given the circumstance it is irrelevant and is only part of the conversation to make a character judgement on the men involved.
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Posted 11/27/06 12:27 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
bri1980
LIF Adult
Member since 9/06 1364 total posts
Name:
Brianne
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by MsMBV
I am not trying to justify anything, I am just pointing out that everyone is assuming the worst. What strippers do not have friends? It is entirely possible that this particular person knew them.
DH & I both worked in night clubs for many years, and know many people who work in many professions. I just think that people automatically assume the worst when they hear the word "stripper." It is not the worst profession in the world, nor does it automatically make her irresponsible or promiscuous, nor does it immediately make him a "john." Could it have been, yes, but I still think that given the circumstance it is irrelevant and is only part of the conversation to make a character judgement on the men involved.
 .........ok
Hanging out with strippers on your wedding day, and running over cops.
Your right....I shouldnt assume that they were up to no good
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:33 PM |
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Libragal07
Loving Summer.....
Member since 8/06 6636 total posts
Name:
Samantha aka Sammy Bones
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
I just wanted to throw in and say that the Mayor just interrupted TV to hold a conference about the shooting
Message edited 11/27/2006 12:35:19 PM.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:34 PM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by bri1980
Posted by MsMBV
I am not trying to justify anything, I am just pointing out that everyone is assuming the worst. What strippers do not have friends? It is entirely possible that this particular person knew them.
DH & I both worked in night clubs for many years, and know many people who work in many professions. I just think that people automatically assume the worst when they hear the word "stripper." It is not the worst profession in the world, nor does it automatically make her irresponsible or promiscuous, nor does it immediately make him a "john." Could it have been, yes, but I still think that given the circumstance it is irrelevant and is only part of the conversation to make a character judgement on the men involved.
.........ok
Hanging out with strippers on your wedding day, and running over cops.
Your right....I shouldnt assume that they were up to no good
Maybe the stripper was working to pay her way through med school, and he was going to help her study for an anat and phys test! 
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:35 PM |
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Tumbalina
Better than the news!
Member since 2/06 2840 total posts
Name:
Angela
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Shorty
Posted by nycchic24
And this has NOTHING to do with anything....BUT, why the hell was this guy out at 4am on the day he was getting married?
Exactly what I was thinking!
I know.
While his fiancee was home sleeping, caring for their 2 young children.
They were getting married the next evening at a restaurant in Queens. They were together for a long time and they are good people.
Like I said my friend is friends with the bride.
He had every right being out, not far from home. His friends took him. They had every right.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:38 PM |
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bri1980
LIF Adult
Member since 9/06 1364 total posts
Name:
Brianne
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Tumbalina
Posted by Shorty
Posted by nycchic24
And this has NOTHING to do with anything....BUT, why the hell was this guy out at 4am on the day he was getting married?
Exactly what I was thinking!
I know.
While his fiancee was home sleeping, caring for their 2 young children.
They were getting married the next evening at a restaurant in Queens. They were together for a long time and they are good people.
Like I said my friend is friends with the bride.
He had every right being out, not far from home. His friends took him. They had every right.
So why did he ask for his gun? 
If hes a " good person"?
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:40 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name:
MJ
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Re:
.
Message edited 8/7/2011 11:28:12 PM.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:41 PM |
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bri1980
LIF Adult
Member since 9/06 1364 total posts
Name:
Brianne
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
And he didnt have "every right" to run over a cop.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:41 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by bri1980
Posted by MsMBV
I am not trying to justify anything, I am just pointing out that everyone is assuming the worst. What strippers do not have friends? It is entirely possible that this particular person knew them.
DH & I both worked in night clubs for many years, and know many people who work in many professions. I just think that people automatically assume the worst when they hear the word "stripper." It is not the worst profession in the world, nor does it automatically make her irresponsible or promiscuous, nor does it immediately make him a "john." Could it have been, yes, but I still think that given the circumstance it is irrelevant and is only part of the conversation to make a character judgement on the men involved.
.........ok
Hanging out with strippers on your wedding day, and running over cops.
Your right....I shouldnt assume that they were up to no good
no need to roll eyes at me. I am merely stating that just like we were accusing the media of doing, people are jumping to conclusions about the character of the people invovled. It is hypocritical and irrelevant in the case, as far as I am concerned. Would it be OK that he was shot 50 times if he were a John? I don't think so. So why does it matter?
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:42 PM |
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bri1980
LIF Adult
Member since 9/06 1364 total posts
Name:
Brianne
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
But isnt the character of the people a little obvious?? Please..
This is going to go in circles. Justify it as much as you want.
Im done.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:45 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by MrsPJB2007
for everyone that keeps throwing around the # of shots....how many times have you been in a shoot-out where you think your life might be in danger? do you know it takes 10 seconds to fire 10 shots with the weapons that NYPD uses? 5 cops shooting at the same time....yeah it can happen without them realizing how many times they shot. yes, 1 cop reloaded his clip, but obviously they felt the need to use it.
it's a tragedy what happened, but the media NEVER gives you the entire story, and instead make the cops look like the most evil ppl. as if NYPD members walk around all day looking for shoot-outs or something.
and cops are taught to shoot at "central mass". that means chest & torso area or head. the crap in movies where people shoot tires and make magical sniper shots of shoulders and hands and the criminal just has a flesh wound, is just that....fiction.
i wish ppl would stop throwing around the # of rounds...cause quite frankly you just DON'T KNOW what it feels like in that 10-20 seconds when you think your life is in danger. just because they didn't find a weapon, doesn't mean they didn't feel threatened. if a car is being rammed at a cop, or if the victims were shouting about going to the car for guns. (which is some of the reports coming out) then they thought their life was in jeopardy.
i am sorry for the family, but i wish ppl would stop assuming that the cops were trigger happy and wanted to shoot these guys for the hellulva. next time you guys are in a gun fight, let me know how it turns out.
Thank you Melissa!! You made so many good points!  
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:48 PM |
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anonttcer
BOOOO for fall!
Member since 7/06 10082 total posts
Name:
Meaning a NON ttcer!
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by MrsPJB2007
for everyone that keeps throwing around the # of shots....how many times have you been in a shoot-out where you think your life might be in danger? do you know it takes 10 seconds to fire 10 shots with the weapons that NYPD uses? 5 cops shooting at the same time....yeah it can happen without them realizing how many times they shot. yes, 1 cop reloaded his clip, but obviously they felt the need to use it.
it's a tragedy what happened, but the media NEVER gives you the entire story, and instead make the cops look like the most evil ppl. as if NYPD members walk around all day looking for shoot-outs or something.
and cops are taught to shoot at "central mass". that means chest & torso area or head. the crap in movies where people shoot tires and make magical sniper shots of shoulders and hands and the criminal just has a flesh wound, is just that....fiction.
i wish ppl would stop throwing around the # of rounds...cause quite frankly you just DON'T KNOW what it feels like in that 10-20 seconds when you think your life is in danger. just because they didn't find a weapon, doesn't mean they didn't feel threatened. if a car is being rammed at a cop, or if the victims were shouting about going to the car for guns. (which is some of the reports coming out) then they thought their life was in jeopardy.
i am sorry for the family, but i wish ppl would stop assuming that the cops were trigger happy and wanted to shoot these guys for the hellulva. next time you guys are in a gun fight, let me know how it turns out.
Thank you Melissa!! You made so many good points!
I couldn't agree more.
Try doing it for one day.
See how long you last.
It's very easy to pass judgement when you have never been in that situation.
Trust me- everything cops do is under scrutiny these days. The LAST thing they want to do is ruin their lives and their careers by shooting their guns unnecessarily. I highly doubt they were looking to kill innocent people that night- just for the heck of it! Please.
Message edited 11/27/2006 12:55:39 PM.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:55 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
From 7online.com...just something else to think about....
Retired lieutenant Julian Harper used to work in the same squad and says procedures dictate that undercover cops who were in the club and who may have been drinking as part of the role playing should not be involved in the enforcement outside of the club.
"They are not to become involved or engaged in any enforcement activity unless it is a dire need at that particular moment," Mr. Harper said.
100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care is now calling for a change in policy for undercover cops, forcing them to take breathalyzer tests after being involved in a fatal shooting.
I wish someone would clarify what the "dire need" was in this case. Maybe it will quell the speculation.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:56 PM |
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Tumbalina
Better than the news!
Member since 2/06 2840 total posts
Name:
Angela
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
I won't comment anymore because like you, I wasn't there.
I just know from my friend, that they were good people, at least the groom was.
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| Posted 11/27/06 12:59 PM |
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Tumbalina
Better than the news!
Member since 2/06 2840 total posts
Name:
Angela
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by bri1980
Posted by Tumbalina
Posted by Shorty
Posted by nycchic24
And this has NOTHING to do with anything....BUT, why the hell was this guy out at 4am on the day he was getting married?
Exactly what I was thinking!
I know.
While his fiancee was home sleeping, caring for their 2 young children.
They were getting married the next evening at a restaurant in Queens. They were together for a long time and they are good people.
Like I said my friend is friends with the bride.
He had every right being out, not far from home. His friends took him. They had every right.
So why did he ask for his gun?
If hes a " good person"?
I won't comment anymore because like you, I wasn't there.
I just know from my friend, that they were good people, at least the groom was.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:00 PM |
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Moosey911
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 771 total posts
Name:
Nicki
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
I dont want to judge, but my intial reaction is 50 shots is excessive against someone unarmed.
UNARMED???? They were armed with a 3,000lb moving vehicle!!!!! Which HIT A COP!!!!!
I am NYPD and know the full story.....so, people, before you toss judgement at innocent cops, try obtaining all the facts first!!! The media has blown this entire thing out of proportion (once again)....
Funny, just last month a female officer where I work was hit and pinned to a light pole by a savage using a motor vehicle as a WEAPON....she almost died and nearly lost both of her legs....her partner shot and killed the driver of THAT vehicle......BUT, did you see THAT incident on the front page of every newspaper....Officer Critically Injured by Savage in a Car, savage dies in gunfire....no, b/c the press doesn't consider THAT big news....it only made a small article on page 16.
The press picks and chooses it's stories....and the majority of the time, it is published before all the facts are known.
And honestly, unless any of you have EVER been involved in a situation where you TRULY feared for your life......then you also have NO RIGHT to judge 50 shots, 2 shots, or 120 shots by the cops. When someone is shooting at you, hitting you or your partner with a car, coming at you with a knife, or trying to throw you over the side of an 8 story building.....the human instinct kicks in and the will to survive takes over. 50 shots is not unreasonable for 4 cops who were placed in an EXTREMELY scary situation!!!!
OK....rant over. Feel free to bash me all you want....but I seriously couldn't read anymore of your inaccurate opinions anymore!!!!
ETA: I realize some of you "knew the groom".....but you also need to realize every single savage involved had an extensive criminal record. These guys weren't exactly church-going folks who were out for a Sunday stroll!!!!
Message edited 11/27/2006 1:03:50 PM.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:02 PM |
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HollaGirl
Merry Christmas !!!
Member since 10/06 3308 total posts
Name:
Kristen
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Moosey911
I dont want to judge, but my intial reaction is 50 shots is excessive against someone unarmed.
UNARMED???? They were armed with a 3,000lb moving vehicle!!!!! Which HIT A COP!!!!!
I am NYPD and know the full story.....so, people, before you toss judgement at innocent cops, try obtaining all the facts first!!! The media has blown this entire thing out of proportion (once again)....
Funny, just last month a female officer where I work was hit and pinned to a light pole by a savage using a motor vehicle as a WEAPON....she almost died and nearly lost both of her legs....her partner shot and killed the driver of THAT vehicle......BUT, did you see THAT incident on the front page of every newspaper....Officer Critically Injured by Savage in a Car, savage dies in gunfire....no, b/c the press doesn't consider THAT big news....it only made a small article on page 16.
The press picks and chooses it's stories....and the majority of the time, it is published before all the facts are known.
And honestly, unless any of you have EVER been involved in a situation where you TRULY feared for your life......then you also have NO RIGHT to judge 50 shots, 2 shots, or 120 shots by the cops. When someone is shooting at you, hitting you or your partner with a car, coming at you with a knife, or trying to throw you over the side of an 8 story building.....the human instinct kicks in and the will to survive takes over. 50 shots is not unreasonable for 4 cops who were placed in an EXTREMELY scary situation!!!!
OK....rant over. Feel free to bash me all you want....but I seriously couldn't read anymore of your inaccurate opinions anymore!!!!
No bashing from me.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:04 PM |
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Moosey911
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 771 total posts
Name:
Nicki
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Beth1210
...how about shooting out the tires of the car if they are driving away- not the people in the car
You never shoot at the tires. That works great in the movies, but you're not trained to do that in law enforcement.
Plain and simple...if you're going to pull the trigger, you shoot to kill...not wound.
agreed. You do shoot to kill. I still think the cops acted irresponsibly.
BTW: NYPD is NOT TRAINED to "shoot to kill".....we are trained to shoot center mass. Unfortunately, if a perp is sitting in a car that is coming straight at me, his head and chest are center mass.....so, yes...it does often lead to death....however, there are plenty of shootings where perps have been taken down with a shot to an extremity.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:05 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by HollaGirl
Posted by Moosey911
I dont want to judge, but my intial reaction is 50 shots is excessive against someone unarmed.
UNARMED???? They were armed with a 3,000lb moving vehicle!!!!! Which HIT A COP!!!!!
I am NYPD and know the full story.....so, people, before you toss judgement at innocent cops, try obtaining all the facts first!!! The media has blown this entire thing out of proportion (once again)....
Funny, just last month a female officer where I work was hit and pinned to a light pole by a savage using a motor vehicle as a WEAPON....she almost died and nearly lost both of her legs....her partner shot and killed the driver of THAT vehicle......BUT, did you see THAT incident on the front page of every newspaper....Officer Critically Injured by Savage in a Car, savage dies in gunfire....no, b/c the press doesn't consider THAT big news....it only made a small article on page 16.
The press picks and chooses it's stories....and the majority of the time, it is published before all the facts are known.
And honestly, unless any of you have EVER been involved in a situation where you TRULY feared for your life......then you also have NO RIGHT to judge 50 shots, 2 shots, or 120 shots by the cops. When someone is shooting at you, hitting you or your partner with a car, coming at you with a knife, or trying to throw you over the side of an 8 story building.....the human instinct kicks in and the will to survive takes over. 50 shots is not unreasonable for 4 cops who were placed in an EXTREMELY scary situation!!!!
OK....rant over. Feel free to bash me all you want....but I seriously couldn't read anymore of your inaccurate opinions anymore!!!!
No bashing from me.
Me neither- Amen to what you said and Thank you for all that you do for the city!! You are brave and I really respect you and everything you said, although sad, is very true and valid.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:08 PM |
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Marybeth222
My Girls!
Member since 5/05 2688 total posts
Name:
Marybeth
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by Marybeth222
Posted by nixy
We can all speculate and say what should have happened...but none of us were there, none of carry a gun for our job, or have been put in this situation, so how can we comment on what the cops should have done?
They have the most thankless job in the world...
Thank you for posting this.
so as the public we should sit back and let the cop do what ever then want b/c they have a thankless job?
it is our job as the public to question events that don't add up to us
the police work for us- we have the right to question everything they do!
Absolutely not. But the original post said: We can all speculate and say what should have happened...but none of us were there, none of carry a gun for our job, or have been put in this situation, so how can we comment on what the cops should have done?
We do have a right to question what the police do but we were not there and DO NOT know the whole story.
If your spouse was a cop, I think you'd feel the way I do.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:08 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Moosey911
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Beth1210
...how about shooting out the tires of the car if they are driving away- not the people in the car
You never shoot at the tires. That works great in the movies, but you're not trained to do that in law enforcement.
Plain and simple...if you're going to pull the trigger, you shoot to kill...not wound.
agreed. You do shoot to kill. I still think the cops acted irresponsibly.
BTW: NYPD is NOT TRAINED to "shoot to kill".....we are trained to shoot center mass. Unfortunately, if a perp is sitting in a car that is coming straight at me, his head and chest are center mass.....so, yes...it does often lead to death....however, there are plenty of shootings where perps have been taken down with a shot to an extremity.
I clarified my statement of "shoot to kill" a little later in the thread (page 4, near the bottom.)
Message edited 11/27/2006 1:14:43 PM.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:11 PM |
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HollaGirl
Merry Christmas !!!
Member since 10/06 3308 total posts
Name:
Kristen
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Moosey911
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Beth1210
...how about shooting out the tires of the car if they are driving away- not the people in the car
You never shoot at the tires. That works great in the movies, but you're not trained to do that in law enforcement.
Plain and simple...if you're going to pull the trigger, you shoot to kill...not wound.
agreed. You do shoot to kill. I still think the cops acted irresponsibly.
BTW: NYPD is NOT TRAINED to "shoot to kill".....we are trained to shoot center mass. Unfortunately, if a perp is sitting in a car that is coming straight at me, his head and chest are center mass.....so, yes...it does often lead to death....however, there are plenty of shootings where perps have been taken down with a shot to an extremity.
I clarified my statement of "shoot to kill" a little later in the thread.
In my opinion, I have always called it shoot to kill, because most likely, the perp will die from the wound.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:13 PM |
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Moosey911
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 771 total posts
Name:
Nicki
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by HollaGirl
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Moosey911
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Beth1210
...how about shooting out the tires of the car if they are driving away- not the people in the car
You never shoot at the tires. That works great in the movies, but you're not trained to do that in law enforcement.
Plain and simple...if you're going to pull the trigger, you shoot to kill...not wound.
agreed. You do shoot to kill. I still think the cops acted irresponsibly.
BTW: NYPD is NOT TRAINED to "shoot to kill".....we are trained to shoot center mass. Unfortunately, if a perp is sitting in a car that is coming straight at me, his head and chest are center mass.....so, yes...it does often lead to death....however, there are plenty of shootings where perps have been taken down with a shot to an extremity.
I clarified my statement of "shoot to kill" a little later in the thread.
In my opinion, I have always called it shoot to kill, because most likely, the perp will die from the wound.
yeah...that's not true either. if you research the nypd shooting statistics for the year...you'll see a VAST majority of our shootings DO NOT end up fatalities. As a matter of fact, most of them are treated and released at the hosptal and then sent off to be arraigned.
We always "joke" that when one of us gets shot or hurt, it often leads to death....but whenever a savage takes 3 hits dead center in his chest, he's out playing ball a month later. Sad, but extremely true.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:18 PM |
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HollaGirl
Merry Christmas !!!
Member since 10/06 3308 total posts
Name:
Kristen
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by Moosey911
Posted by HollaGirl
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Moosey911
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by Beth1210
...how about shooting out the tires of the car if they are driving away- not the people in the car
You never shoot at the tires. That works great in the movies, but you're not trained to do that in law enforcement.
Plain and simple...if you're going to pull the trigger, you shoot to kill...not wound.
agreed. You do shoot to kill. I still think the cops acted irresponsibly.
BTW: NYPD is NOT TRAINED to "shoot to kill".....we are trained to shoot center mass. Unfortunately, if a perp is sitting in a car that is coming straight at me, his head and chest are center mass.....so, yes...it does often lead to death....however, there are plenty of shootings where perps have been taken down with a shot to an extremity.
I clarified my statement of "shoot to kill" a little later in the thread.
In my opinion, I have always called it shoot to kill, because most likely, the perp will die from the wound.
yeah...that's not true either. if you research the nypd shooting statistics for the year...you'll see a VAST majority of our shootings DO NOT end up fatalities. As a matter of fact, most of them are treated and released at the hosptal and then sent off to be arraigned.
We always "joke" that when one of us gets shot or hurt, it often leads to death....but whenever a savage takes 3 hits dead center in his chest, he's out playing ball a month later. Sad, but extremely true.
I am just saying how I interpret the phrase, that's all. And it is true, ironically, the scumbags live to tell, and the cops dont.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:20 PM |
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MRSE
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 1420 total posts
Name:
(112903)
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Re: Groom Killed on Wedding Day
Posted by anonttcer
Posted by nixy
We can all speculate and say what should have happened...but none of us were there, none of carry a gun for our job, or have been put in this situation, so how can we comment on what the cops should have done?
They have the most thankless job in the world...
Thank you! Unless you were in that situation you have no right to judge. Nobody knows all the facts.
Try going to work every day and having to put on a bullet proof vest and fear that you might not make it home alive.
Then you can Monday morning quarterback.
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| Posted 11/27/06 1:24 PM |
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