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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
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I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
This threads reminds me of a political debate. The democrat presents their source and the republican says that's you being brainwashed by the liberal media. The republican presents a source and is told by the democrat to that it is lies from conservative Fox News. And so it goes....
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Posted 2/5/15 11:28 AM  |
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Seawolf
LIF Adult
Member since 3/14 1336 total posts
Name:
Scrumba
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
I totally understand (now) why ppl are so passionate on both sides, but I wish some ppl could keep it more civil.
Oh well, such is life.
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| Posted 2/5/15 11:29 AM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
A side note, not totally off topic: I went to my GP today, who drew blood. He sent one test out to see if my immunity to the measles had "expired" since I was vaccinated as a child over 30 years ago.  apparently, this can happen.
I'm not afraid for me, I'm so afraid for my newborn son
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| Posted 2/5/15 8:45 PM |
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jerrysgirl
I love my hot dog!!
Member since 6/06 5357 total posts
Name:
E & J
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by LIRascal
A side note, not totally off topic: I went to my GP today, who drew blood. He sent one test out to see if my immunity to the measles had "expired" since I was vaccinated as a child over 30 years ago. apparently, this can happen.
I'm not afraid for me, I'm so afraid for my newborn son
When dh and I started nursing school a few years ago we had to have our titres checked for the various diseases. Dh, who was in his late 30's, was low and had to have a booster done.
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| Posted 2/5/15 9:09 PM |
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Grill
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 994 total posts
Name:
J
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
What the mass media stats lack though is an awareness and sensitivity to the actual ingredients that are in the vaccines and their causal relationship to disease states. This is a really important part of the debate and it must be taken seriously. Below is a List of Ingredients With A Summary of Each One At The Bottom. (And I also put a link to the Merck Package Insert for the MMR. Have anyone ever really read it?) There are real cases of injury and death from vaccines. And the rates of injury, I believe are higher than the rates of contracting the disease…
Everyone wants to thank vaccine induced herd immunity for eradicating the measles. But have you had your boosters? Honestly? Have your co-workers, your parents and neighbors and 90% community members? As you know vaccine-induced immunity wanes over time. If 90% of the population doesnt get boosters or vaccines, then the concept of herd immunity is bordering on hypothetical if not mythical at this point. Most older adults are no longer immune to these diseases. They are just as susceptible as anyone else in passing these viruses along. Where is the harsh judgment or criticism or intolerance for the adult population that does not get their boosters? I guarantee they represent a larger segment of the population than the unvaccinated young children.
Nonetheless, I wholeheartedly appreciate the pro vaccine stance. I appreciate a family's right to protect their children in the best way they know how. However, I also wholeheartedly acknowledge that the ingredients in vaccines can and do cause substantial harm, on either a cellular level or a systemic, observable level. To be intolerant towards a parent for not wanting to inject human albumin serum, formaldehyde, thimerosol, monkey kidney cells, polysorbate 80 and other extreme adjuvants and preservatives is insensitive, You must consider the family's medical history, their child's health status and their fundamental beliefs about life, death and immunity. And to suggest that these informed parents are listening to the likes of a former playboy bunny or a discredited physician is simply untrue and unfair. Didn't Ms. McCarthy retract her statements anyway? There are physicians out there who do not suggest or mandate vaccination based on their medical knowledge.
People die from vaccines. Since 1990 there have been more than 2500 cases of permanent disability or death from the MMR alone. In the past 10 years there have been 108 DEATHS attributed to the MMR, but ZERO deaths attributed to M, M or R. This fact can be found VAERS.gov, which is only one of a few databases where serious injuries are sent to. (Anyone using SNOPES to debunk this needs to understand that the couple behind SNOPES was debunked several years ago. VAERS is a government website..since we can't sue vaccine makers for injury, we can get financial compensation from the government who oversees the database). So, 2500 serious cases or death was just part of the much larger number of injuries reported. There were over 20,000 documented injuries and countless non documented ones that were chalked up as normal. You can go onto VAERS and see the list of symptoms/side effects. You may want to dismiss some of the less significant symptoms like aphasia, prolonged gastritis, ulcers, muscular/motor deficits or behavioral problems…but when they cause significant impacts in one's daily functioning and lead to even a temporary regression, it can be destructive to a family's way of life. Looking from the outside in…it doesn't seem like a great sacrifice. Some people may justify this as necessary for the greater good. But if it were your child, that risk might just too much to assume to continue to keep suspected "herd immunity" alive.
No parent should ever be expected to risk their child's life or way of life so that another child can be 75% "protected". Call it selfish if you will. I call it parental responsibility.
There are more children who have been permanently injured or died from the vaccine than from the measles, mumps or rubella illnesses. This is a fact….with or without a vaccine policy in place. And the MMR has a pretty decent safety record when compared to other atrocities like the DTAP or the HPV vaccine. These numbers are significant…perhaps not statistically when weighed against the number of shots given to the population, but from a humanistic perspective, it just should not be acceptable. This HAS to be a relevant part of a very serious discussion on how to make vaccines safer and perform their intended function without risking one's life more so than the diseases ever will.
In addition, Children's allergies are likely being caused by vaccines. There's really no other plausible explanation when comparing the historical prevalence of allergies vs. vaccines throughout the last few decades. Both have increased exponentially…certainly enough for a correlational existence to be substantiated. We can't inject a foreign protein into the bloodstream expecting an antibody response and then feign confusion when the same antibody response is triggered when the child eats a similar protein or amino acid chain. So, theoretically, vaccines are capable of causing this new trend of severe, IgE allergies and even the lesser evil, the IgG sensitivities to milk and soy that are so rampant in our culture. MMR is cultured using chick embryo protein, DTAP contains dairy protein. Many of these vaccines contain either the exact or variants of the proteins that are behind today's allergy epidemic. Again….an antibody response can not discriminate whether it's a vaccine or a food.
To anyone with a family history of vaccine injury, a statistical BLIP is not something to be casually dismissed. These families (and I have worked with several throughout the years) have to be more cognizant, more cautious, more prudent in all aspects of their life, from the places they travel to the foods and medicines they ingest. In fact, anyone with a history of clear cut allergies or sensitivities is considered an at risk population for vaccine injury mild or severe…noticeable now or at some point in their development. Some immune systems are simply incapable of handling the toxins. Some are more robust due to their genetic predispositions. I don't know….I mean really…I don't f'ing know. All I know is that it is risky either way. And each parent has to live with the consequences of their decisions. Add in personal beliefs like vegetarianism, creationism, natural immunity, etc and this debate becomes quite murky. There is more to it than just the science. There is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness at stake for many who choose not to vaccinate. And I wholeheartedly understand their perspectives.
I know this is a hot topic right now. I hope that if anything, the anti vaccination movement will anger people enough that those on both sides of the coin can band together and find that they have one thing in common: Protecting Their Most Beloved Children. These two sides need to work together in unison to get vaccines out of the hands of big business and into the hands of the "Do No Harm" medical profession where it belongs. :) :). We can all be truly safe and protected if passionate families on both sides begin to see each other as having the same goals and then demanding that the industry make it safer. Polarizing, Condemning, Ostracizing, and Intolerance are going to cause a wider divide and keep the non-vaxers Non-Vaxing. If you want them to consider vaccination, join forces with them and demand greater safety results.
Ingredient List
Merck Package Insert
Edited because the first one was just too long!!
Message edited 2/7/2015 7:39:44 AM.
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| Posted 2/6/15 12:22 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
YESSSSSSSSS...I don't even want to read the rest of the thread bc I KNOW I will get fired up and annoyed
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| Posted 2/6/15 12:33 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Message edited 2/6/2015 12:36:09 PM.
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| Posted 2/6/15 12:35 PM |
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Seawolf
LIF Adult
Member since 3/14 1336 total posts
Name:
Scrumba
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Yeah that last one was wayyyyy too long for me to read.
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| Posted 2/6/15 12:52 PM |
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
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| Posted 2/6/15 1:33 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by Grill
...
People die from vaccines. Since 1990 there have been more than 2500 cases of permanent disability or death from the MMR alone. In the past 10 years there have been 108 DEATHS attributed to the MMR, but ZERO deaths attributed to M, M or R. This fact can be found VAERS.gov, which is only one of a few databases where serious injuries are sent to. 2500 serious cases or death was just part of the much larger number of injuries reported. There were over 20,000 documented injuries and countless non documented ones that were chalked up as normal. You can go onto VAERS and see the list of symptoms/side effects. But the 2500 comes from a simple search of permanent disability and death ONLY. You may want to dismiss some of the less significant symptoms like aphasia, prolonged gastritis, ulcers, muscular/motor deficits or behavioral problems…but when they cause significant impacts in one's daily functioning and lead to even a temporary regression, it can be destructive to a family's way of life....
Just a comment on the VAERS numbers.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp
That claim was provably false, as two people in the U.S. died from the measles in 2009, and another two deaths from measles were recorded in 2010. As such, in two of the ten to eleven years cited in the claim, at least four people have died of measles. And according to the World Health Organization, 145,000 people around the world died of measles in 2013 alone.
What the article failed to address was the reason why measles killed so few Americans in the period cited. The glaring omission had a very specific root cause, namely measles elimination:
In 2000, the United States declared that measles was eliminated from this country.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp#hIw1QxmeRPSHLEKh.99
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| Posted 2/6/15 1:37 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by DiamondGirl
YESSSSSSSSS...I don't even want to read the rest of the thread bc I KNOW I will get fired up and annoyed
You will... it got very nasty 2 days ago, we were even saying the thread should be locked and closed.
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| Posted 2/6/15 1:41 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by Grill
...
People die from vaccines. Since 1990 there have been more than 2500 cases of permanent disability or death from the MMR alone. In the past 10 years there have been 108 DEATHS attributed to the MMR, but ZERO deaths attributed to M, M or R. This fact can be found VAERS.gov, which is only one of a few databases where serious injuries are sent to. 2500 serious cases or death was just part of the much larger number of injuries reported. There were over 20,000 documented injuries and countless non documented ones that were chalked up as normal. You can go onto VAERS and see the list of symptoms/side effects. But the 2500 comes from a simple search of permanent disability and death ONLY. You may want to dismiss some of the less significant symptoms like aphasia, prolonged gastritis, ulcers, muscular/motor deficits or behavioral problems…but when they cause significant impacts in one's daily functioning and lead to even a temporary regression, it can be destructive to a family's way of life....
Just a comment on the VAERS numbers.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp
That claim was provably false, as two people in the U.S. died from the measles in 2009, and another two deaths from measles were recorded in 2010. As such, in two of the ten to eleven years cited in the claim, at least four people have died of measles. And according to the World Health Organization, 145,000 people around the world died of measles in 2013 alone.
What the article failed to address was the reason why measles killed so few Americans in the period cited. The glaring omission had a very specific root cause, namely measles elimination:
In 2000, the United States declared that measles was eliminated from this country.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mmrdeaths.asp#hIw1QxmeRPSHLEKh.99
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| Posted 2/6/15 1:42 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by Grill
And SIDS…ugh. SIDS could very well be caused by newborn administration of the Hep B or of the DTAP that is given within the first few hours or days of life. Newborns are sterile….they have no immune defenses established. It is unreasonable to inject the above mentioned ingredients and expect no side effect. Of course, there are several other suspected causes of SIDS…smoking, breathing disregulation, cardiac defect, maternal teratogens, etc. etc. But in the absence of any definitive cause….the injection of such radically dangerous neurotoxins before gut flora and immune maturity have been established, vaccines can not be cast aside as insignificant players, for at least some of the victims.
Merck Package Insert
Considering SIDS has DROPPED BY OVER 50% over the years since the vaccinations have been developed (especially since the early 90's), I don't even think that you could make a correlation between these! DTAP is NOT given to newborns, only the Hep B. And infants ARE born with immune defenses, they are BORN with their mother's immune defenses already pulsing through their bodies. And if they are breast fed, they are being given their mother's antibodies with each feeding - one reason why breast feeding experts (LC's, midwives, doctors) recommend breast feeding when you are sick, because you will pass the antibodies your body produced to your child.
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| Posted 2/6/15 1:47 PM |
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AllyMally
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/13 881 total posts
Name:
Alyson
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I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
I just can't anymore. If you want your child to have an iron lung machine fine, but that's not my choice or my son's. WE can't get the vaccines or titers and other people can't for medical reasons as well. Vaccine injury I understand and I am not saying it to those parents. I am saying this to parents who are not thinking about anyone else. This isn't just a choice you make for you or your family but ultimately a choice you are making for mine as well. Trust me if we could get the vaccinations we would! It just makes me mad. This isn't a formula vs breastfeeding choice or a cloth vs sposies debate. These choice effect MANY people's health.
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| Posted 2/6/15 2:12 PM |
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Kris78
LIF Infant
Member since 10/11 120 total posts
Name:
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by LastLightGlow
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
Measles is a relatively benign virus. The majority of deaths occur in underdeveloped countries where nutrition is lacking. Most of the severe complications have been linked to Vitamin A deficiency.
Herd immunity doesn't exist because most adults need boosters and don't get them. The vaccination rates for children is actually at its highest rates.
My understanding is even though most non-vaccers don't want their LOs to come down with measles, they prefer it to actually getting the vaccine. I could be wrong though..
I honestly think that many of the hospitalizations that we hear of are simply because Drs are not used to seeing measles. JMO...
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| Posted 2/6/15 3:18 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by Kris78
Posted by LastLightGlow
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
Measles is a relatively benign virus. The majority of deaths occur in underdeveloped countries where nutrition is lacking. Most of the severe complications have been linked to Vitamin A deficiency.
Herd immunity doesn't exist because most adults need boosters and don't get them. The vaccination rates for children is actually at its highest rates.
My understanding is even though most non-vaccers don't want their LOs to come down with measles, they prefer it to actually getting the vaccine. I could be wrong though..
I honestly think that many of the hospitalizations that we hear of are simply because Drs are not used to seeing measles. JMO...
If your child is the one who dies from it, it's not so benign
Roald Dahl's letter to parents about vaccinating against measles
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| Posted 2/6/15 3:33 PM |
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Hopefulmama
LIF Adult
Member since 4/14 1014 total posts
Name:
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
I think another thing is that people need to learn to accept their intellectual limitations. I am not an auto mechanic. Therefore I do not attempt to fix cars. I don't design houses because I am not an engineer. I am a SAHM with a bachelors degree and some things are simply above my pay grade. My best friend is a pediatric cardiologist and simply no other profession on earth requires so much education and training as becoming a doctor does. And yet you have all these non-medical people who think they are capable of picking apart scholarly journals, "exposing" links and connections that brilliant trained professionals have repeatedly found no evidence of. Let's leave the business of medicine to those who have invested 100s of thousands of dollars and decades of their lives on this very specific type of education. This is not something you can pursue casually. No amount of googling is going to make you a doctor. Sorry.
If you are going to debunk science, you better be pretty confident that you are pretty brilliant.
Message edited 2/6/2015 3:50:28 PM.
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| Posted 2/6/15 3:48 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by Hopefulmama
I think another thing is that people need to learn to accept their intellectual limitations. I am not an auto mechanic. Therefore I do not attempt to fix cars. I don't design houses because I am not an engineer. I am a SAHM with a bachelors degree and some things are simply above my pay grade. My best friend is a pediatric cardiologist and simply no other profession on earth requires so much education and training as becoming a doctor does. And yet you have all these non-medical people who think they are capable of picking apart scholarly journals, "exposing" links and connections that brilliant trained professionals have repeatedly found no evidence of. Let's leave the business of medicine to those who have invested 100s of thousands of dollars and decades of their lives on this very specific type of education. This is not something you can pursue casually. No amount of googling is going to make you a doctor. Sorry.
If you are going to debunk science, you better be pretty confident that you are pretty brilliant.
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| Posted 2/6/15 3:54 PM |
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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by LastLightGlow
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
I'm not anti-vaccine so I can't answer for them. However, I was talking to my mom about this. She and her four siblings all got measles, mumps and rubella as kids ( vaccine didn't come out until the mid 60s and she is the youngest) Anyways, they were all sick and it wasn't a fun experience, but they were all perfectly fine. Same thing with many classmates. You'd have to look at the rates of death / complications in America pre-vaccine ( before the mid-1960s) to see what the statistical likelihood was of death or serious complications. I'd imagine that since it was happening in a developed nation where kids weren't immuno-supressed , mal- nourished etc and there was good supportive medical care the number probably weren't that high ( could be wrong though)
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| Posted 2/6/15 3:55 PM |
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alli3131
Peanut is here!!!!!!
Member since 5/09 18388 total posts
Name:
Allison
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by LastLightGlow
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
I'm not anti-vaccine so I can't answer for them. However, I was talking to my mom about this. She and her four siblings all got measles, mumps and rubella as kids ( vaccine didn't come out until the mid 60s and she is the youngest) Anyways, they were all sick and it wasn't a fun experience, but they were all perfectly fine. Same thing with many classmates. You'd have to look at the rates of death / complications in America pre-vaccine ( before the mid-1960s) to see what the statistical likelihood was of death or serious complications. I'd imagine that since it was happening in a developed nation where kids weren't immuno-supressed , mal- nourished etc and there was good supportive medical care the number probably weren't that high ( could be wrong though)
But if we say since the US is generally healthy we would be able to live through these illnesses. However there are immune compromised people that can't. So if I can get my family vaccinated to save their child and family from something that could very likely kill them then I will.
IMO you can't look at as well the US isn't a 3rd world nation so we will be fine.
Message edited 2/6/2015 4:09:24 PM.
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| Posted 2/6/15 4:08 PM |
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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by alli3131
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by LastLightGlow
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
I'm not anti-vaccine so I can't answer for them. However, I was talking to my mom about this. She and her four siblings all got measles, mumps and rubella as kids ( vaccine didn't come out until the mid 60s and she is the youngest) Anyways, they were all sick and it wasn't a fun experience, but they were all perfectly fine. Same thing with many classmates. You'd have to look at the rates of death / complications in America pre-vaccine ( before the mid-1960s) to see what the statistical likelihood was of death or serious complications. I'd imagine that since it was happening in a developed nation where kids weren't immuno-supressed , mal- nourished etc and there was good supportive medical care the number probably weren't that high ( could be wrong though)
But if we say since the US is generally healthy we would be able to live through these illnesses. However there are immune compromised people that can't. So if I can get my family vaccinated to save their child and family from something that could very likely kill them then I will.
IMO you can't look at as well the US isn't a 3rd world nation so we will be fine.
Yes, those who are immune compromised would definitely be at great risk. I just did some research and it seems that between 1956 and 1960, in America there were 542,000 reported cases of measles. Out of 542,000 cases reported over between 1956 and 1960 there were 2250 deaths. Over the same time period, there were 4000 reported cases of encephalitis. The most common reported complication was a respiratory complication ( 150,000 cases)
So, based on those numbers the risk of death was quite low, but certainly a real possibility. Then you have to take into account the chance of other complications aside from death.
Source: oxford journals.
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| Posted 2/6/15 4:21 PM |
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sunnyflies
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 1757 total posts
Name:
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I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
I'm older than many on this board and I remember having measles. In fact, I had both kinds at once which was unusual. Both my face and my body were covered in spots. It was miserable.
One of them, I have forgotten which, could result in damaged eyesight, even blindness, so the shades had to be drawn and we, my sister who had it also, had to stay in the dark until the doctor felt it was safe to raise them. Talk about boring. No TV, either, as light might cause damage.
My youngest sister got Chicken Pox when she was an infant and the rest of us had it. She only broke out in a few spots so didn't appear to have had a bad case. How wrong that was.
It turned out that it did major damage to her teeth developing in her gums. Teeth that had not even emerged. She is a grown woman now, but has suffered enormously all her life from tooth problems. She has had to have root canal in almost every tooth in her mouth. Two of them had to be redone this past summer, and she had to have a rear tooth pulled last winter. Thanks to Chicken Pox.
My uncle had Scarlet Fever which developed into Rhumatic fever which damaged his heart. He died in his early thirties from heart problems.
Several friends had polio and were left with serious disabilities. I remember how often I would see people with one leg a very different size than the other due to polio.
I do believe in vaccinations.
Message edited 2/6/2015 4:42:39 PM.
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| Posted 2/6/15 4:23 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by alli3131
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by LastLightGlow
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
I'm not anti-vaccine so I can't answer for them. However, I was talking to my mom about this. She and her four siblings all got measles, mumps and rubella as kids ( vaccine didn't come out until the mid 60s and she is the youngest) Anyways, they were all sick and it wasn't a fun experience, but they were all perfectly fine. Same thing with many classmates. You'd have to look at the rates of death / complications in America pre-vaccine ( before the mid-1960s) to see what the statistical likelihood was of death or serious complications. I'd imagine that since it was happening in a developed nation where kids weren't immuno-supressed , mal- nourished etc and there was good supportive medical care the number probably weren't that high ( could be wrong though)
But if we say since the US is generally healthy we would be able to live through these illnesses. However there are immune compromised people that can't. So if I can get my family vaccinated to save their child and family from something that could very likely kill them then I will.
IMO you can't look at as well the US isn't a 3rd world nation so we will be fine.
Yes, those who are immune compromised would definitely be at great risk. I just did some research and it seems that between 1956 and 1960, in America there were 542,000 reported cases of measles. Out of 542,000 cases reported over between 1956 and 1960 there were 2250 deaths. Over the same time period, there were 4000 reported cases of encephalitis. The most common reported complication was a respiratory complication ( 150,000 cases)
So, based on those numbers the risk of death was quite low, but certainly a real possibility. Then you have to take into account the chance of other complications aside from death.
Source: oxford journals.
And my guess is that the "death" counts don't include people who died from COMPLICATIONS from it years later. Say someone got encephalitis and died 7 years later (definitely a possibility), I'm sure that person isn't included in the "reported deaths".
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| Posted 2/6/15 4:23 PM |
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by Hopefulmama
I think another thing is that people need to learn to accept their intellectual limitations. I am not an auto mechanic. Therefore I do not attempt to fix cars. I don't design houses because I am not an engineer. I am a SAHM with a bachelors degree and some things are simply above my pay grade. My best friend is a pediatric cardiologist and simply no other profession on earth requires so much education and training as becoming a doctor does. And yet you have all these non-medical people who think they are capable of picking apart scholarly journals, "exposing" links and connections that brilliant trained professionals have repeatedly found no evidence of. Let's leave the business of medicine to those who have invested 100s of thousands of dollars and decades of their lives on this very specific type of education. This is not something you can pursue casually. No amount of googling is going to make you a doctor. Sorry.
If you are going to debunk science, you better be pretty confident that you are pretty brilliant.
Yep. It has to be so frustrating to be a doctor these days because I am sure they have their share of patients who try to challenge their years of study with an hour of reading WebMD.
Doctors are not perfect but I chose DD's ped because I TRUST him and respect his expertise. And frankly, I do not want my kid to be that one kid who has complications.
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| Posted 2/6/15 4:47 PM |
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MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: I have a (possibly dumb) question about vaccinations
Posted by jessnbrian
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by alli3131
Posted by MrsA1012
Posted by LastLightGlow
Let's say most of the population just stops vaccinating. No more vaccines. To nonvaxers: Do you think that would be ok(I swear I am not being snarky)? I am genuinely curious. Like we should be acquiring our immunity by enduring the course disease instead? Or maybe you think there really won't be outbreaks? In some way do you believe in herd immunity? As in it's ok for other children to get vaccines to preserve your own kids herd immunity? I'm trying to be mindful to all opinions.
I'm not anti-vaccine so I can't answer for them. However, I was talking to my mom about this. She and her four siblings all got measles, mumps and rubella as kids ( vaccine didn't come out until the mid 60s and she is the youngest) Anyways, they were all sick and it wasn't a fun experience, but they were all perfectly fine. Same thing with many classmates. You'd have to look at the rates of death / complications in America pre-vaccine ( before the mid-1960s) to see what the statistical likelihood was of death or serious complications. I'd imagine that since it was happening in a developed nation where kids weren't immuno-supressed , mal- nourished etc and there was good supportive medical care the number probably weren't that high ( could be wrong though)
But if we say since the US is generally healthy we would be able to live through these illnesses. However there are immune compromised people that can't. So if I can get my family vaccinated to save their child and family from something that could very likely kill them then I will.
IMO you can't look at as well the US isn't a 3rd world nation so we will be fine.
Yes, those who are immune compromised would definitely be at great risk. I just did some research and it seems that between 1956 and 1960, in America there were 542,000 reported cases of measles. Out of 542,000 cases reported over between 1956 and 1960 there were 2250 deaths. Over the same time period, there were 4000 reported cases of encephalitis. The most common reported complication was a respiratory complication ( 150,000 cases)
So, based on those numbers the risk of death was quite low, but certainly a real possibility. Then you have to take into account the chance of other complications aside from death.
Source: oxford journals.
And my guess is that the "death" counts don't include people who died from COMPLICATIONS from it years later. Say someone got encephalitis and died 7 years later (definitely a possibility), I'm sure that person isn't included in the "reported deaths".
. No, those numbers are just based on the yearly reported death totals. It does report the rate of complications but not the death rate from those complications years later as the this data is shorter term.
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| Posted 2/6/15 5:56 PM |
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