| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 |
KPtoys
I'm getting old
Member since 5/05 8688 total posts
Name:
Karen
|
If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
to me real quick I would be grateful. Why are they back to fighting? Wasn't there a nice cease fire that was working oh so nicely? 
|
Posted 12/29/08 1:00 PM  |
| |
|
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
there will never be true lasting peace in that region of the world, there are tensions and hatreds that go back thousands of years.
there is such deep rooted anti-semitism and anti-zionism in the arab world and also in the western world. there will never be peace.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 2:31 PM |
| |
|
kristinel
Steinbeck
Member since 5/08 1224 total posts
Name:
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
There was a ceasefire but Hamas broke it. Israel retaliated. As for the history, I could provide more info, but basically it all goes back to the Balfour Declaration during WWI and the British promising the Jewish people a "homeland" in Palestine. Notice that homeland is placed in "". That's only one part of the problem. Let's not even go into the "promised" land bits. Needless-to-say, this looks like it will never end.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 2:42 PM |
| |
|
PreshusSmurf
So in love with my little guys
Member since 1/07 2963 total posts
Name:
Jess
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Wikipedia Article on Hamas
|
| Posted 12/29/08 2:44 PM |
| |
|
Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Cease fire ended December 19th, at which time Hamas launched a campaign of daily rocket attacks on Southern Israel (hitting my family's kibbutz, among others, killing a cousin of mine and necessitating that they evacuate their home of 30+ years).
Israel threatened REPEATEDLY that if Hamas didn't stop the attacks it would retaliate in large measure.
The attacks didn't stop, so Israel started air strikes this week.
Of course, as usual, there was little to no international coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel and civilian fatalities, but the second Israel retaliated, in its own defense, and targeting Hamas headquarters, it gets splashed across international headlines and Israel is made out to be the big bad wolf.
Sorry, I'm a little jaded on this issue 
|
| Posted 12/29/08 2:46 PM |
| |
|
kristinel
Steinbeck
Member since 5/08 1224 total posts
Name:
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
I say good for Israel! They need to protect their citizens.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 2:47 PM |
| |
|
KvsGrl
Round 2!!
Member since 1/07 1202 total posts
Name:
Samantha
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by Bxgell2
Cease fire ended December 19th, at which time Hamas launched a campaign of daily rocket attacks on Southern Israel (hitting my family's kibbutz, among others, killing a cousin of mine and necessitating that they evacuate their home of 30+ years).
Israel threatened REPEATEDLY that if Hamas didn't stop the attacks it would retaliate in large measure.
The attacks didn't stop, so Israel started air strikes this week.
Of course, as usual, there was little to no international coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel and civilian fatalities, but the second Israel retaliated, in its own defense, and targeting Hamas headquarters, it gets splashed across international headlines and Israel is made out to be the big bad wolf.
Sorry, I'm a little jaded on this issue
I am so sorry for your loss 
I agree... where was the coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel? Shame on US media!
|
| Posted 12/29/08 2:50 PM |
| |
|
Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by KvsGrl
Posted by Bxgell2
Cease fire ended December 19th, at which time Hamas launched a campaign of daily rocket attacks on Southern Israel (hitting my family's kibbutz, among others, killing a cousin of mine and necessitating that they evacuate their home of 30+ years).
Israel threatened REPEATEDLY that if Hamas didn't stop the attacks it would retaliate in large measure.
The attacks didn't stop, so Israel started air strikes this week.
Of course, as usual, there was little to no international coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel and civilian fatalities, but the second Israel retaliated, in its own defense, and targeting Hamas headquarters, it gets splashed across international headlines and Israel is made out to be the big bad wolf.
Sorry, I'm a little jaded on this issue
I am so sorry for your loss
I agree... where was the coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel? Shame on US media!
Distant cousin, so it doesn't hit quite as home with me. But, all the same, it pizzes me off the way Israel is represented in the media, not just in the US.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 2:53 PM |
| |
|
KPtoys
I'm getting old
Member since 5/05 8688 total posts
Name:
Karen
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by Bxgell2
Cease fire ended December 19th, at which time Hamas launched a campaign of daily rocket attacks on Southern Israel (hitting my family's kibbutz, among others, killing a cousin of mine and necessitating that they evacuate their home of 30+ years).
Israel threatened REPEATEDLY that if Hamas didn't stop the attacks it would retaliate in large measure.
The attacks didn't stop, so Israel started air strikes this week.
Of course, as usual, there was little to no international coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel and civilian fatalities, but the second Israel retaliated, in its own defense, and targeting Hamas headquarters, it gets splashed across international headlines and Israel is made out to be the big bad wolf.
Sorry, I'm a little jaded on this issue
Why did they let the cease fire expire? I am sorry for what happened to your distant cousin.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 3:27 PM |
| |
|
wannabemom
look who's freshly baked!
Member since 12/07 7364 total posts
Name:
aka marriedinportjeff
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
wow, this thread has some serious potential 
|
| Posted 12/29/08 3:32 PM |
| |
|
Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Apparently that's how long the cease fire was intended to last - when it expired, Hamas refused to extend it.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 3:36 PM |
| |
|
BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by wannabemom
wow, this thread has some serious potential
Seriously. This issue is so complicated. Both sides have done their share of awful things. 
|
| Posted 12/29/08 4:22 PM |
| |
|
Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by wannabemom
wow, this thread has some serious potential
Seriously. This issue is so complicated. Both sides have done their share of awful things.
I agree.
the Israeli govt is not an innocent lamb either.
there is hate on BOTH sides.
and it's the western worlds fault too...for promising land to a people that was already occupied.
I have both israeli and palestinian friends so I see it from both sides.
of course, the civilians are those that suffer most.
this is not to say that I agree with Hamas in ANY way...but I understand the frustration.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 4:28 PM |
| |
|
dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by KvsGrl
Posted by Bxgell2
Cease fire ended December 19th, at which time Hamas launched a campaign of daily rocket attacks on Southern Israel (hitting my family's kibbutz, among others, killing a cousin of mine and necessitating that they evacuate their home of 30+ years).
Israel threatened REPEATEDLY that if Hamas didn't stop the attacks it would retaliate in large measure.
The attacks didn't stop, so Israel started air strikes this week.
Of course, as usual, there was little to no international coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel and civilian fatalities, but the second Israel retaliated, in its own defense, and targeting Hamas headquarters, it gets splashed across international headlines and Israel is made out to be the big bad wolf.
Sorry, I'm a little jaded on this issue
I am so sorry for your loss
I agree... where was the coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel? Shame on US media!
But I felt on what I have read almost all coverage stating Hamas should have expected it...And even the Government basically said that no? That they deserved it in so much words?
I dont know, so if I have it wrong, Im sorry.
I just dont get it( this is a very naive statement I know) ....why do people not get that violence begets violence? Why would you want to harms omeone for harming you, when in turn they do the same and the same and the same? Isisnt it basic understanding of intelligence to see its NOT working...killing each other?
|
| Posted 12/29/08 5:23 PM |
| |
|
wannabemom
look who's freshly baked!
Member since 12/07 7364 total posts
Name:
aka marriedinportjeff
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by dm24angel
Posted by KvsGrl
Posted by Bxgell2
Cease fire ended December 19th, at which time Hamas launched a campaign of daily rocket attacks on Southern Israel (hitting my family's kibbutz, among others, killing a cousin of mine and necessitating that they evacuate their home of 30+ years).
Israel threatened REPEATEDLY that if Hamas didn't stop the attacks it would retaliate in large measure.
The attacks didn't stop, so Israel started air strikes this week.
Of course, as usual, there was little to no international coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel and civilian fatalities, but the second Israel retaliated, in its own defense, and targeting Hamas headquarters, it gets splashed across international headlines and Israel is made out to be the big bad wolf.
Sorry, I'm a little jaded on this issue
I am so sorry for your loss
I agree... where was the coverage of the daily rocket attacks on Israel? Shame on US media!
But I felt on what I have read almost all coverage stating Hamas should have expected it...And even the Government basically said that no? That they deserved it in so much words?
I dont know, so if I have it wrong, Im sorry.
I just dont get it( this is a very naive statement I know) ....why do people not get that violence begets violence? Why would you want to harms omeone for harming you, when in turn they do the same and the same and the same? Isisnt it basic understanding of intelligence to see its NOT working...killing each other?
ah alas, logic goes against human nature and emotions  if logic trumped them, we would never have war or totalitarian regimes.... but they're everywhere.
It's a fight for turf. both feel they are the ones who are the 'real' landowners.
More than a fight for turf, it's a fight over water (and wells). That is the limiting resource over there. Both sides hate the other so completely and unappologetically that reconciliation is a pipedream IMO. sad but true.
It will be like turkey or spain several hundred years ago.... constant fighting until one group is completely subjugated.
|
| Posted 12/29/08 6:05 PM |
| |
|
KartveliT
...
Member since 1/08 8363 total posts
Name:
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by wannabemom
wow, this thread has some serious potential
Seriously. This issue is so complicated. Both sides have done their share of awful things.
I agree.
the Israeli govt is not an innocent lamb either.
there is hate on BOTH sides.
.
I agree 100%
|
| Posted 12/30/08 7:45 AM |
| |
|
MrsR
My love.
Member since 5/05 6247 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by Ophelia
I agree.
the Israeli govt is not an innocent lamb either.
there is hate on BOTH sides.
and it's the western worlds fault too...for promising land to a people that was already occupied.
I have both israeli and palestinian friends so I see it from both sides.
of course, the civilians are those that suffer most.
this is not to say that I agree with Hamas in ANY way...but I understand the frustration.
I understand and respect you seeing it from both sides, but I want to make something clear. Hamas is a terrorist organization, this battle is against hamas and not the civilians.
I think both Israelis and palestinians would like peace, and be able to live side by side (and the truth is that in a lot of areas in Isreal they DO!), Israeli citizens HAVE given up a bunch of land in hopes of this.
Unfortunately it is not just the land that is the issue - it is the existance of the jewish people.
eta: Hamas not only terrorizes Israel - but they put their own people in danger as well. The palastinian civilians would be better off without hamas.
Message edited 12/30/2008 8:29:57 AM.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 8:26 AM |
| |
|
Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by MrsR
Posted by Ophelia
I agree.
the Israeli govt is not an innocent lamb either.
there is hate on BOTH sides.
and it's the western worlds fault too...for promising land to a people that was already occupied.
I have both israeli and palestinian friends so I see it from both sides.
of course, the civilians are those that suffer most.
this is not to say that I agree with Hamas in ANY way...but I understand the frustration.
I understand and respect you seeing it from both sides, but I want to make something clear. Hamas is a terrorist organization, this battle is against hamas and not the civilians.
I think both Israelis and palestinians would like peace, and be able to live side by side (and the truth is that in a lot of areas in Isreal they DO!), Israeli citizens HAVE given up a bunch of land in hopes of this.
Unfortunately it is not just the land that is the issue - it is the existance of the jewish people.
eta: Hamas not only terrorizes Israel - but they put their own people in danger as well. The palastinian civilians would be better off without hamas.
Agreed. Usually I am a middle of the line kind of person and can see issues from both sides, respectfully. And, even here, yes I can see that the hostiity and aggression on both sides is serving no real purpose.
However, my sympathy for the other side in this case doesn't extend all that far because their intent and mission is entirely different than that of Israel. Israel rarely attacks for no reason, and when it does attack, targets terrorist cells and organizations.
Hamas, on the other hand, calls for the complete annihilation of the State of Israel and the jewish people. Isreal does NOT take that perspective when it comes to Palestine, and in fact, has made several attempts to encourage the peaceful cohabitation of Israelis with Palestinians by giving back large chunks of land.
And while Israel does usually does not act aggresively, but instead retaliatory, and directs its attacks as best it can against the terrorist cells themselves, Hamas literally terrorizes the Israeli people with direct, and intentional attacks against civilians.
And the truth is the UN did not "steal" land from the Palenstinians when it created the Israeli state. Plenty of jews/israels already lived on the land.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 8:36 AM |
| |
|
Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
ITA with BEth and MrsR. How can you make peace with people who won't even recognize Israel's right to exist and only targets civilians in its attack.
My great aunt died a few years ago after her neighborhood in Haifa was repeatedly attacked with rockets. Its completely a civilian neighborhood.
Beth, I'm sorry for your loss. My SIL who has 5 more months in the army, had to leave Jerusalem to go back to her base on the border of Gaza.
Also, please note that Isreal made all Israelis vacate Gaza and declared that as Palistinian terrority as an effort for peace. They literally kicked out thier own at gunpoint to make a sacrafice for peace. And what happened- no peace. So Israel gave up land in hopes of peace, and then got rocketed by those same people they gave the land to.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 8:41 AM |
| |
|
Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by MrsR
Posted by Ophelia
I agree.
the Israeli govt is not an innocent lamb either.
there is hate on BOTH sides.
and it's the western worlds fault too...for promising land to a people that was already occupied.
I have both israeli and palestinian friends so I see it from both sides.
of course, the civilians are those that suffer most.
this is not to say that I agree with Hamas in ANY way...but I understand the frustration.
I understand and respect you seeing it from both sides, but I want to make something clear. Hamas is a terrorist organization, this battle is against hamas and not the civilians.
I think both Israelis and palestinians would like peace, and be able to live side by side (and the truth is that in a lot of areas in Isreal they DO!), Israeli citizens HAVE given up a bunch of land in hopes of this.
Unfortunately it is not just the land that is the issue - it is the existance of the jewish people.
eta: Hamas not only terrorizes Israel - but they put their own people in danger as well. The palastinian civilians would be better off without hamas.
you really didn't have to make that clear from my benefit. I thought I made it clear that I DON"T AGREE with HAMAS or ANY terrorist organization.
I don't agree with ANYONE, organization or NOT subjugating and terrorizing a people.
I don't agree with a Goliath beating on a David.
I cannot understand for my life how the Israeli govt can continue to justify keeping the Palestinian people in CAMPS. the irony of it blows my mind. it really does.
it's like when WE, the US put Japanese people in internment camps during WWII. it's digusting.
as is a person strapped with explosives going into a party and killing INNOCENT people.
BOTH govts should be ASHAMED of themselves.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 10:23 AM |
| |
|
BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by MrsR
Posted by Ophelia
I agree.
the Israeli govt is not an innocent lamb either.
there is hate on BOTH sides.
and it's the western worlds fault too...for promising land to a people that was already occupied.
I have both israeli and palestinian friends so I see it from both sides.
of course, the civilians are those that suffer most.
this is not to say that I agree with Hamas in ANY way...but I understand the frustration.
I understand and respect you seeing it from both sides, but I want to make something clear. Hamas is a terrorist organization, this battle is against hamas and not the civilians.
I think both Israelis and palestinians would like peace, and be able to live side by side (and the truth is that in a lot of areas in Isreal they DO!), Israeli citizens HAVE given up a bunch of land in hopes of this.
Unfortunately it is not just the land that is the issue - it is the existance of the jewish people.
eta: Hamas not only terrorizes Israel - but they put their own people in danger as well. The palastinian civilians would be better off without hamas.
you really didn't have to make that clear from my benefit. I thought I made it clear that I DON"T AGREE with HAMAS or ANY terrorist organization.
I don't agree with ANYONE, organization or NOT subjugating and terrorizing a people.
I don't agree with a Goliath beating on a David.
I cannot understand for my life how the Israeli govt can continue to justify keeping the Palestinian people in CAMPS. the irony of it blows my mind. it really does.
it's like when WE, the US put Japanese people in internment camps during WWII. it's digusting.
as is a person strapped with explosives going into a party and killing INNOCENT people.
BOTH govts should be ASHAMED of themselves.
Very well put Ophelia. Both governments need a serious overhaul and both are far from innocent. There are religious fanatics on both sides.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 11:13 AM |
| |
|
Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by BunnyWife
[
Very well put Ophelia. Both governments need a serious overhaul and both are far from innocent. There are religious fanatics on both sides.
honestly, I don't even know how much of it is about religious fanatacism in the GOVT as it is about POWER, CONTROL. there is a sense of entitlement to this whole thing that I cannot stomach. NO ONE deserves a place to live more than the other.
enough already.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 11:18 AM |
| |
|
BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by BunnyWife
[
Very well put Ophelia. Both governments need a serious overhaul and both are far from innocent. There are religious fanatics on both sides.
honestly, I don't even know how much of it is about religious fanatacism in the GOVT as it is about POWER, CONTROL. there is a sense of entitlement to this whole thing that I cannot stomach. NO ONE deserves a place to live more than the other.
enough already.
I guess what I meant by fanatisim is the "Because I'm jewish/muslim I DESERVE this land" Or maybe that's just an excuse to gain more power and more control
I find it disgusting and sad. Those poor babies and innocent people. Just trying to live their lives
|
| Posted 12/30/08 11:23 AM |
| |
|
KPtoys
I'm getting old
Member since 5/05 8688 total posts
Name:
Karen
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by wannabemom
wow, this thread has some serious potential
Not my intention at all. I hope it doesn't live up to its full potential!! I just didn't understand that they had a cease fire. People weren't being killed and they let it expire and BAM the killing begins again. I just thought the cease fire was a good thing. Back to my little sunshine world where everyone is happy I guess.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 11:30 AM |
| |
|
Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
|
Re: If someone can explain the Israel/Hammas thing
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by BunnyWife
[
Very well put Ophelia. Both governments need a serious overhaul and both are far from innocent. There are religious fanatics on both sides.
honestly, I don't even know how much of it is about religious fanatacism in the GOVT as it is about POWER, CONTROL. there is a sense of entitlement to this whole thing that I cannot stomach. NO ONE deserves a place to live more than the other.
enough already.
I don't get the sense of entitlement that you're talking about. If you've ever visited Israel you will see that in 90% of Isreal, Arabs and Jews coexist, quite peacefully I might add. Arabs are granted all the same rights as Israelis and are treated equally, with the exception that they do not serve in the Israeli army.
Now, the occupied territories, yes, that's a completely different story. Israel has a stronghold in these areas, not for inhumanitarian or discriminatory reasons, but for security reasons. Most of the terrorist cells are located in these areas, and this is the source of most of the almost daily terrorist attacks on Israel. If the attacks ended, the stronghold would end. If vice versa, if Israel let go of the occupied areas a little, I assure you the attacks would not end, as we've seen most recently when Israel gave back 90% of the land in the occupied territories and was STILL pummeled by daily terrorist attacks from terrorist cells in the occupied areas.
At this point it isn't about entitlement - arabs are entitled to live wherever they please, and Israel has made every attempt to give back the land in the occupied areas. The assaults continue because this is a terrorist organization that will not stop until the State of Israel and the jewish population is completely annihilated. And while they continue to pursue that goal, Israel will do what is necessary to defend itself and its citizens.
|
| Posted 12/30/08 11:36 AM |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 |
