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On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
Posted by emilylives
Posted by evrythng4areason
i am shocked at this whole thing, and not in the way that many of you are...
i don't think wanting to hold on to what i worked for makes me a bad person like some of you insinuate
and on a side note, why does everyone always pick on english majors? 
I'm not saying you're a bad person because of your views, but I am saying that to me, the views are lacking in compassion and empathy. We live in a society in which we're necessarily depending on each other. You are using public roads/transportation, you have the police and firefighters protecting you, your food is protected by the FDA, your air is protected by the EPA, and your kids will probably go to public school. Why shouldn't you have to give up some of your salary to cover these expenses? And that should go for ensuring that all citizens have access to basic human needs like food, shelter, healthcare, and education.
i do pay taxes for these things..a LOT of taxes
and i do like to think i'm a pretty compassionate person-i teach, i have manners, i hold doors
i have been DIRT poor, and nobody gave me sh**..nor would i expect them to
why do others expect me to give more money out of my check that i work for, when they don't?
so if you couldn't afford health insurance and you were dying, but couldn't afford to pay for treatment, you'd be like "$ucks for me!"? what if it were your boyfriend or your mom in that situation? you don't think we as a society have a responsibility to take care of each other at all? to make sure that other people don't die because they're too helpless to take care of themselves? again, i point to that chinese baby video and my point on the previous page - how is being unwilling to sacrifice your salary to ensure everyone has access to life-saving healthcare any different from walking by someone who's dying without offering help?
Message edited 10/18/2011 10:39:46 PM.
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Posted 10/18/11 10:38 PM  |
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evrythng4areason
And then there were 4
Member since 1/10 5224 total posts
Name:
Kayla
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
i did go without health insurance for awhile, because i wasn't provided any by my job
if something did happen to me, i did have a "plan"
anything i couldn't afford, my family would have helped pay for
anything over that? ya, it does $uck for me
such is life
life isn't fair
life $ucks sometimes
that's the way it goes
some people are smarter, prettier, funnier, etc.
what is wrong with a merit based society?
because socialism sure as he L L hasn't worked historically
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:41 PM |
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
i did go without health insurance for awhile, because i wasn't provided any by my job
if something did happen to me, i did have a "plan"
anything i couldn't afford, my family would have helped pay for
anything over that? ya, it does $uck for me
such is life
life isn't fair
life $ucks sometimes
that's the way it goes
some people are smarter, prettier, funnier, etc.
what is wrong with a merit based society?
because socialism sure as he L L hasn't worked historically
but what happens if you didn't have family? or they financially couldn't help?
could you just accept that life wouldn't be fair? KWIM?
I'd rather if you were unemployed and fell ill or suffered a terrible accident, that you were helped by the greater good.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:44 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
Posted by emilylives
Posted by evrythng4areason
i am shocked at this whole thing, and not in the way that many of you are...
i don't think wanting to hold on to what i worked for makes me a bad person like some of you insinuate
and on a side note, why does everyone always pick on english majors?
I'm not saying you're a bad person because of your views, but I am saying that to me, the views are lacking in compassion and empathy. We live in a society in which we're necessarily depending on each other. You are using public roads/transportation, you have the police and firefighters protecting you, your food is protected by the FDA, your air is protected by the EPA, and your kids will probably go to public school. Why shouldn't you have to give up some of your salary to cover these expenses? And that should go for ensuring that all citizens have access to basic human needs like food, shelter, healthcare, and education.
i do pay taxes for these things..a LOT of taxes
and i do like to think i'm a pretty compassionate person-i teach, i have manners, i hold doors
i have been DIRT poor, and nobody gave me sh**..nor would i expect them to
why do others expect me to give more money out of my check that i work for, when they don't?
But, see, that's just it YOU (like me) pay a lot of taxes. WE pay our fair share.
The corporations and 1% are not paying their fair share. Some corps are getting lucrative tax breaks while recording record profits, laying people off and outsourcing work off shore.
Some corps got refunds of millions of dollars last year.
I'm not a big proponent of the welfare system, but I don't equate healthcare to welfare. Healthcare, IMO, is a basic human right. Subsidized housing? Food stamps? Great idea in theory, but these people receiving aid in the form of TANF, Section 8, food stamps should be required to pay back society either in the form of paid work or volunteering. Many people have used the welfare system as a short term stop gap and to help them get a leg up while contributing to the system, but many have unfortunately made a career of being on the dole. People can't find work? Fine, they can be in the schools helping to do administrative tasks, janitorial.. assisting in food banks, assisting to beautify their own neighborhoods.. community gardening coops.. there's many things we could do to make them contributing members of society (other than contributing more children)
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:45 PM |
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evrythng4areason
And then there were 4
Member since 1/10 5224 total posts
Name:
Kayla
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
i could accept that if i had no family
everyone dies at some point
thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:45 PM |
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
you know what bothers me too - all those sick little kids whose parents are going broke or ARE broke because of the cost of medical treatments and the medicine, or that they have to quit their jobs to take care of their sick loved ones or themselves, etc.....
we even know some on LIF. And we all help and spread the word and donate, etc......
but when it comes to faceless people we don't know, well, "Life is just unfair. Deal with it."
Would anyone say that to any of the wonderful people on the LIF community who have fallen ill? or their children who have fallen ill? Never.
Such hypocrisy.
Message edited 10/18/2011 10:49:53 PM.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:46 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
i did go without health insurance for awhile, because i wasn't provided any by my job
if something did happen to me, i did have a "plan"
anything i couldn't afford, my family would have helped pay for
anything over that? ya, it does $uck for me
such is life
life isn't fair
life $ucks sometimes
that's the way it goes
some people are smarter, prettier, funnier, etc.
what is wrong with a merit based society?
because socialism sure as he L L hasn't worked historically
By that logic, we should also abolish the education system in the US. It's a socialistic concept. Only those who can afford it should be able to send their children to school.
Universal healthcare works in other civilized nations, some in conjunction with private insurance, and those aren't socialist countries
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:47 PM |
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evrythng4areason
And then there were 4
Member since 1/10 5224 total posts
Name:
Kayla
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
But, see, that's just it YOU (like me) pay a lot of taxes. WE pay our fair share.
The corporations and 1% are not paying their fair share. Some corps are getting lucrative tax breaks while recording record profits, laying people off and outsourcing work off shore.
Some corps got refunds of millions of dollars last year.
I'm not a big proponent of the welfare system, but I don't equate healthcare to welfare. Healthcare, IMO, is a basic human right. Subsidized housing? Food stamps? Great idea in theory, but these people receiving aid in the form of TANF, Section 8, food stamps should be required to pay back society either in the form of paid work or volunteering. Many people have used the welfare system as a short term stop gap and to help them get a leg up while contributing to the system, but many have unfortunately made a career of being on the dole. People can't find work? Fine, they can be in the schools helping to do administrative tasks, janitorial.. assisting in food banks, assisting to beautify their own neighborhoods.. community gardening coops.. there's many things we could do to make them contributing members of society (other than contributing more children)
i get that, i do
but i also think that big businesses are necessary, so i'm not sure why everyone attacks them
it's life in america-why can't people accept it?
it IS a free country..anyone so radically opposed isn't held here against their will..
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:47 PM |
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
i could accept that if i had no family
everyone dies at some point
thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..
everyone dies?
if you get sick or not get sick doesn't have anything to do with how hard you work.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:48 PM |
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evrythng4areason
And then there were 4
Member since 1/10 5224 total posts
Name:
Kayla
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
haha well i do think education should be radically reformed, and i'm a teacher (although i know you can't tell from how i talk on here)
it is socialistic, and btw, education is in a cr@pload of trouble too
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:48 PM |
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evrythng4areason
And then there were 4
Member since 1/10 5224 total posts
Name:
Kayla
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by LadyBugN2Buggies
Posted by evrythng4areason
i could accept that if i had no family
everyone dies at some point
thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..
everyone dies?
if you get sick or not get sick doesn't have anything to do with how hard you work.
no it doesn't, but accepting your lot in life does
i work hard, i've done my best
something happens, i can accept that
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:49 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
i did go without health insurance for awhile, because i wasn't provided any by my job
if something did happen to me, i did have a "plan"
anything i couldn't afford, my family would have helped pay for
anything over that? ya, it does $uck for me
such is life
life isn't fair
life $ucks sometimes
that's the way it goes
some people are smarter, prettier, funnier, etc.
what is wrong with a merit based society?
because socialism sure as he L L hasn't worked historically
While you were without health insurance, did you ever have to lay out anything significant monetarily?
It's great that your family is in the position to help pay - mine is not.
If anything catastrophic happens to me while I'm uninsured, I'm screwed. I will be bankrupted.
As I stated before, my annual visit with pap screening cost me $1127. That, IMO, is a pretty significant amount of money. That's just for a well visit - basic healthcare, I couldn't imagine if, god forbid something bad was to happen to me.
"such is life
life isn't fair
life sucks sometimes
that's the way it goes
some people are smarter, prettier, funnier, etc.
what is wrong with a merit based society?"
Wow. I pray for your sake, and your family's sake you're never without health insurance again, or for that matter nothing catastrophic happens to you because with your train of thought you could possibly cause financial ruin to you and your family.
FYI, it's NOT uncommon to wrack up about a MILLION DOLLARS in medical debt.
Congratulations to you and yours if the possibility of facing THAT type of financial burden doesn't worry you. If the best you can come up with is:
"such is life
life isn't fair
life $ucks sometimes
that's the way it goes
some people are smarter, prettier, funnier, etc.
what is wrong with a merit based society?"
I wish you well.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:53 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
Posted by LadyBugN2Buggies
Posted by evrythng4areason
i could accept that if i had no family
everyone dies at some point
thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..
everyone dies?
if you get sick or not get sick doesn't have anything to do with how hard you work.
no it doesn't, but accepting your lot in life does
i work hard, i've done my best
something happens, i can accept that
easier said than done
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:53 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by emilylives
Posted by evrythng4areason
i am shocked at this whole thing, and not in the way that many of you are...
i don't think wanting to hold on to what i worked for makes me a bad person like some of you insinuate
and on a side note, why does everyone always pick on english majors?
I'm not saying you're a bad person because of your views, but I am saying that to me, the views are lacking in compassion and empathy. We live in a society in which we're necessarily depending on each other. You are using public roads/transportation, you have the police and firefighters protecting you, your food is protected by the FDA, your air is protected by the EPA, and your kids will probably go to public school. Why shouldn't you have to give up some of your salary to cover these expenses? And that should go for ensuring that all citizens have access to basic human needs like food, shelter, healthcare, and education.
This is where I think you and I aren't seeing eye to eye.
I have compassion for people in need. I have compassion for the guy who is down on his luck and lost his job. I have compassion for the elderly woman who can't afford her meds. I have compassion for the mom who works three jobs just to get buy so she can feed her kids. I have a lot of compassion and I am MORE than willing to have my taxed money taken and used to help people less fortunate than I. I think we should help our fellow neighbor. I think that is the right thing to do. I think there are many, many good, honest people who have been dealt a cr@ppy hand and could use a little help and I wouldn't begrudge those people assistance. Not at all.
But I don't think that you can just make a sweeping, broad declaration that everyone is entitled to assistance (whatever that assistance may be) because quite frankly, I don't think everyone is entitled. And I don't think it makes me any less compassionate for saying so. As I've continually said, there are many, many people who take advantage of the system, who abuse the assistance they are being given, who basically take and take at the expense of other good citizens who do their part to take care of their own by any means possible AND at the expense of those people who REALLY need the help.
THIS was the point I was trying to make all along. That's all.
And in order to even provide a basic healthcare coverage for EVERY citizen as a "basic human right" something VERY drastic would have to change in our healthcare system. As it is, even for basic care for someone, like me, who has good insurance, it STILL costs me a TON out of pocket before my insurance even kicks in a dime. What the insurance companies are billed by doctors is outrageous, the premiums we have to pay are insane, the deductibles, the co-pays, the co-insurance..........it's all nuts!! Healthcare, especially in our nation today, costs an incredible amount of money even with both an employer and an employee paying into it. My DH's company insures themselves and Cigna manages it and even then.........it's still a fortune.
That being said, how can we possibly as a nation (even if we wanted to) offer healthcare to EVERYONE when healthcare costs are so out of control?
I don't know why we're all arguing this back and forth because ultimately not a single one of us has the answers or even knows how to fix the system that is so broken. So to criticize and jump on one another is completely unproductive. The problem our nation faces is bigger than us, I think some people forget that. We're all entitled to our opinions, we don't all have to agree, but we could at least respect where the other person is coming from and agree to disagree at this point and let it be. 
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:55 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
But, see, that's just it YOU (like me) pay a lot of taxes. WE pay our fair share.
The corporations and 1% are not paying their fair share. Some corps are getting lucrative tax breaks while recording record profits, laying people off and outsourcing work off shore.
Some corps got refunds of millions of dollars last year.
I'm not a big proponent of the welfare system, but I don't equate healthcare to welfare. Healthcare, IMO, is a basic human right. Subsidized housing? Food stamps? Great idea in theory, but these people receiving aid in the form of TANF, Section 8, food stamps should be required to pay back society either in the form of paid work or volunteering. Many people have used the welfare system as a short term stop gap and to help them get a leg up while contributing to the system, but many have unfortunately made a career of being on the dole. People can't find work? Fine, they can be in the schools helping to do administrative tasks, janitorial.. assisting in food banks, assisting to beautify their own neighborhoods.. community gardening coops.. there's many things we could do to make them contributing members of society (other than contributing more children)
i get that, i do
but i also think that big businesses are necessary, so i'm not sure why everyone attacks them
it's life in america-why can't people accept it?
it IS a free country..anyone so radically opposed isn't held here against their will..
Necessary? Yes, I agree. We need business here.
Tax break after tax break, bailouts with US Taxpayer funds... but yet posting record profits reaping the benefits of the US TAXPAYER generosity while rewarding their CEOs for essentially failing, sending jobs over to other countries, eliminating jobs on US soil and having no issue paying taxes to other countries? I think something's wrong with that. I think we need to stop some of the tax breaks. I think some of these businesses we've bailed out need to find a way to create jobs HERE.
There are a lot of issues that need fixing, but I think businesses paying taxes is a good start. So is ridding ourselves of corrupt politicians and lobbyists, but that is probably going to take longer to do.
I am proud to be an American. I love this country and I love that we are even able to sit here and debate these issues and have differing opinions. But, it doesn't mean I don't see room for improvement.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:56 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by evrythng4areason
i could accept that if i had no family
everyone dies at some point
thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..
wow, are you serious?
be thankful you haven't fallen on hard times and NEEDED health insurance.
WOW.
You're POV is certainly interesting.
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| Posted 10/18/11 10:56 PM |
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
All I have to say is, Hofstra, you are now OFFICIALLY in the clear.
It would appear that we have found someone else new who makes you look like
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:00 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by LadyBugN2Buggies
All I have to say is, Hofstra, you are now OFFICIALLY in the clear.
It would appear that we have found someone else new who makes you look like
IMAGE
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:02 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by emilylives
Posted by evrythng4areason
i am shocked at this whole thing, and not in the way that many of you are...
i don't think wanting to hold on to what i worked for makes me a bad person like some of you insinuate
and on a side note, why does everyone always pick on english majors?
I'm not saying you're a bad person because of your views, but I am saying that to me, the views are lacking in compassion and empathy. We live in a society in which we're necessarily depending on each other. You are using public roads/transportation, you have the police and firefighters protecting you, your food is protected by the FDA, your air is protected by the EPA, and your kids will probably go to public school. Why shouldn't you have to give up some of your salary to cover these expenses? And that should go for ensuring that all citizens have access to basic human needs like food, shelter, healthcare, and education.
This is where I think you and I aren't seeing eye to eye.
I have compassion for people in need. I have compassion for the guy who is down on his luck and lost his job. I have compassion for the elderly woman who can't afford her meds. I have compassion for the mom who works three jobs just to get buy so she can feed her kids. I have a lot of compassion and I am MORE than willing to have my taxed money taken and used to help people less fortunate than I. I think we should help our fellow neighbor. I think that is the right thing to do. I think there are many, many good, honest people who have been dealt a cr@ppy hand and could use a little help and I wouldn't begrudge those people assistance. Not at all.
But I don't think that you can just make a sweeping, broad declaration that everyone is entitled to assistance (whatever that assistance may be) because quite frankly, I don't think everyone is entitled. And I don't think it makes me any less compassionate for saying so. As I've continually said, there are many, many people who take advantage of the system, who abuse the assistance they are being given, who basically take and take at the expense of other good citizens who do their part to take care of their own by any means possible AND at the expense of those people who REALLY need the help.
THIS was the point I was trying to make all along. That's all.
And in order to even provide a basic healthcare coverage for EVERY citizen as a "basic human right" something VERY drastic would have to change in our healthcare system. As it is, even for basic care for someone, like me, who has good insurance, it STILL costs me a TON out of pocket before my insurance even kicks in a dime. What the insurance companies are billed by doctors is outrageous, the premiums we have to pay are insane, the deductibles, the co-pays, the co-insurance..........it's all nuts!! Healthcare, especially in our nation today, costs an incredible amount of money even with both an employer and an employee paying into it. My DH's company insures themselves and Cigna manages it and even then.........it's still a fortune.
That being said, how can we possibly as a nation (even if we wanted to) offer healthcare to EVERYONE when healthcare costs are so out of control?
I understand your point, but I just don't see how it's feasible to weed out the people who are supposedly mooching from the people who are just down on their luck. It's not like you can give people a survey and ask them whether they're truly in need or just taking advantage of the system. I just feel like people get bogged down on this point, not realizing that the government loses extravagantly more money on corporate tax loopholes and a vast defense department than on people who are mooching off the system.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:07 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by LadyBugN2Buggies
All I have to say is, Hofstra, you are now OFFICIALLY in the clear.
It would appear that we have found someone else new who makes you look like
IMAGE
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:09 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
And in order to even provide a basic healthcare coverage for EVERY citizen as a "basic human right" something VERY drastic would have to change in our healthcare system. As it is, even for basic care for someone, like me, who has good insurance, it STILL costs me a TON out of pocket before my insurance even kicks in a dime. What the insurance companies are billed by doctors is outrageous, the premiums we have to pay are insane, the deductibles, the co-pays, the co-insurance..........it's all nuts!! Healthcare, especially in our nation today, costs an incredible amount of money even with both an employer and an employee paying into it. My DH's company insures themselves and Cigna manages it and even then.........it's still a fortune.
I've been doing medical billing for like, oh, my whole career? So about 16ish years? It's getting worse and worse.
I started my career as a claims reviewer for workman's comp. This was back in the days of paper claims. I'd take the claim, review it for diagnosis coding, procedure codiing, see if the coding was justified in the notes........ let me tell you I learned a LOT about how the system worked.
Our unwritten rule was when in doubt, deny. We used to downcode bills to pay a provider less.I went to work on the other side because it was quite unfulfilling to deny things time and time again.
Insurers are a bigger problem than the Dr's and HOspitals.
Another big problem is that in some states (MA and NY both) our insurance has to kick in extra $ on every inpatient bill towards the uncompensated care pool. This is a pool of money doled out to hospitals to help defer the costs of the uninsured seeking treatment in the ER, inpatient etc. Let me tell you, some people DO use the ER for basic medical care and it is easily triple the cost of them going to a Dr and getting a prescription and most of it? Preventative medicine. It is illegal for a hospital to turn someone away in the ER. They have to treat you. There was a story posted about a week or 2 ago about an illegal immigrant who was in the hospital for over a year because the hospital had no where to send him. Bill was over 1 mil. We pay that. And it's more common than people think.
Then you have to add in malpractice insurance. For some specialties it's astronomical. I think somoene posted recently that they wokr for an OB who pays something like 100k+ for malpractice insurance. That's obscene.
But it all comes back to the insurers, really. My job exists solely to battle things out with them that we are rightfully owed. It's exhausting.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:09 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by emilylives
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by emilylives
Posted by evrythng4areason
i am shocked at this whole thing, and not in the way that many of you are...
i don't think wanting to hold on to what i worked for makes me a bad person like some of you insinuate
and on a side note, why does everyone always pick on english majors?
I'm not saying you're a bad person because of your views, but I am saying that to me, the views are lacking in compassion and empathy. We live in a society in which we're necessarily depending on each other. You are using public roads/transportation, you have the police and firefighters protecting you, your food is protected by the FDA, your air is protected by the EPA, and your kids will probably go to public school. Why shouldn't you have to give up some of your salary to cover these expenses? And that should go for ensuring that all citizens have access to basic human needs like food, shelter, healthcare, and education.
This is where I think you and I aren't seeing eye to eye.
I have compassion for people in need. I have compassion for the guy who is down on his luck and lost his job. I have compassion for the elderly woman who can't afford her meds. I have compassion for the mom who works three jobs just to get buy so she can feed her kids. I have a lot of compassion and I am MORE than willing to have my taxed money taken and used to help people less fortunate than I. I think we should help our fellow neighbor. I think that is the right thing to do. I think there are many, many good, honest people who have been dealt a cr@ppy hand and could use a little help and I wouldn't begrudge those people assistance. Not at all.
But I don't think that you can just make a sweeping, broad declaration that everyone is entitled to assistance (whatever that assistance may be) because quite frankly, I don't think everyone is entitled. And I don't think it makes me any less compassionate for saying so. As I've continually said, there are many, many people who take advantage of the system, who abuse the assistance they are being given, who basically take and take at the expense of other good citizens who do their part to take care of their own by any means possible AND at the expense of those people who REALLY need the help.
THIS was the point I was trying to make all along. That's all.
And in order to even provide a basic healthcare coverage for EVERY citizen as a "basic human right" something VERY drastic would have to change in our healthcare system. As it is, even for basic care for someone, like me, who has good insurance, it STILL costs me a TON out of pocket before my insurance even kicks in a dime. What the insurance companies are billed by doctors is outrageous, the premiums we have to pay are insane, the deductibles, the co-pays, the co-insurance..........it's all nuts!! Healthcare, especially in our nation today, costs an incredible amount of money even with both an employer and an employee paying into it. My DH's company insures themselves and Cigna manages it and even then.........it's still a fortune.
That being said, how can we possibly as a nation (even if we wanted to) offer healthcare to EVERYONE when healthcare costs are so out of control?
I understand your point, but I just don't see how it's feasible to weed out the people who are supposedly mooching from the people who are just down on their luck. It's not like you can give people a survey and ask them whether they're truly in need or just taking advantage of the system. I just feel like people get bogged down on this point, not realizing that the government loses extravagantly more money on corporate tax loopholes and a vast defense department than on people who are mooching off the system.
I get that. I suppose it's a hard thing to do. Perhaps we need stricter rules and managing of those who are seeking assistance so they can't claim benefits forever and drain the system. Maybe then it would be easier to see those who are taking advantage and those who are not. Who knows!!.........that's a problem bigger than me and I really don't have the answers!! 
But I do agree that there are bigger issues going on here with the corporations, banks, taxation, etc. I think it's safe to say, there are SO many problems at EVERY turn these days in our country that is seems so bleak. I just pray someone figures something out because it is all so depressing lately. 
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:14 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by tarabelle99
Posted by Hofstra26
And in order to even provide a basic healthcare coverage for EVERY citizen as a "basic human right" something VERY drastic would have to change in our healthcare system. As it is, even for basic care for someone, like me, who has good insurance, it STILL costs me a TON out of pocket before my insurance even kicks in a dime. What the insurance companies are billed by doctors is outrageous, the premiums we have to pay are insane, the deductibles, the co-pays, the co-insurance..........it's all nuts!! Healthcare, especially in our nation today, costs an incredible amount of money even with both an employer and an employee paying into it. My DH's company insures themselves and Cigna manages it and even then.........it's still a fortune.
I've been doing medical billing for like, oh, my whole career? So about 16ish years? It's getting worse and worse.
I started my career as a claims reviewer for workman's comp. This was back in the days of paper claims. I'd take the claim, review it for diagnosis coding, procedure codiing, see if the coding was justified in the notes........ let me tell you I learned a LOT about how the system worked.
Our unwritten rule was when in doubt, deny. We used to downcode bills to pay a provider less.I went to work on the other side because it was quite unfulfilling to deny things time and time again.
Insurers are a bigger problem than the Dr's and HOspitals.
Another big problem is that in some states (MA and NY both) our insurance has to kick in extra $ on every inpatient bill towards the uncompensated care pool. This is a pool of money doled out to hospitals to help defer the costs of the uninsured seeking treatment in the ER, inpatient etc. Let me tell you, some people DO use the ER for basic medical care and it is easily triple the cost of them going to a Dr and getting a prescription and most of it? Preventative medicine. It is illegal for a hospital to turn someone away in the ER. They have to treat you. There was a story posted about a week or 2 ago about an illegal immigrant who was in the hospital for over a year because the hospital had no where to send him. Bill was over 1 mil. We pay that. And it's more common than people think.
Then you have to add in malpractice insurance. For some specialties it's astronomical. I think somoene posted recently that they wokr for an OB who pays something like 100k+ for malpractice insurance. That's obscene.
But it all comes back to the insurers, really. My job exists solely to battle things out with them that we are rightfully owed. It's exhausting.
That is so crazy!! A MILLION dollars??!!! I can't even imagine!!
Funny you mention an OB, my first OB years ago (who was WONDERFUL) had actually stopped taking insurance for a number of reasons (I had to always pay her out of pocket) and then the last time I was there (years ago) had been talking about leaving her practice because between the malpractice insurance in NY and the insurance issues in general it was costing her an astronomical amount of money to stay afloat. It's sad for a great doctor to be driven out of practice because of the costs to just run her business.
Edit - Holy run-on sentence!!
Message edited 10/18/2011 11:19:30 PM.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:19 PM |
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mamabear
LIF Adult
Member since 3/08 4539 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Hofstra- I may have disagreed with you before, but your last point, I get, and may agree with to an extent. However, I do believe that we would benefit as a society by giving everyone--no matter their circumstances--a certain level of health care.
For example, immunizations. If you cant afford them, and dont get them, we all suffer if you get a contagious illness. If you can't get basic care, and show up at an ER clogging our hospitals, and generating bills you ultimately can't pay, we all suffer and pay through tax money, anyway. There are some basic health care needs that if given to all, I think we as a society would benefit from.
I also think that we need more protection for the middle class. The middle class, and upper middle class, is, IMO, the backbone of society. However, they are taxed hard, have high payments to get by in life for pretty basic needs, and don't often get the chance to save enough for a crisis. I do believe that there should be something in place to protect these hard-working people who fall on hard times, because those hard times happen more often than we ever expected. I am so grateful that i have a job, that i have health insurance, a supportive family, and other insurance that i have saved for. earlier this year, i got pretty sick. for a moment, i had to think about what would happen if i couldn't work anymore. or, what would happen to my kids if i died. i support our family. i worked my butt off to get here. my dh is a vet who never had the chance to go to college, and is now doing that. if something happened to me, my kids and dh would be so screwed. i have life insurance, and pay insane amounts for that. but if i was just disabled? or if i am laid off in an industry where lay offs are happening every single day. what would happen to us? we could get by for a few months, and I hope that would be sufficient. but i live in fear every day because i know my safety net could be taken at any moment. i am ok with paying more to help people in such a position, as long as i know if i am ever in that position, i am protected as well.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:23 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by mamabear
Hofstra- I may have disagreed with you before, but your last point, I get, and may agree with to an extent. However, I do believe that we would benefit as a society by giving everyone--no matter their circumstances--a certain level of health care.
For example, immunizations. If you cant afford them, and dont get them, we all suffer if you get a contagious illness. If you can't get basic care, and show up at an ER clogging our hospitals, and generating bills you ultimately can't pay, we all suffer and pay through tax money, anyway. There are some basic health care needs that if given to all, I think we as a society would benefit from.
I also think that we need more protection for the middle class. The middle class, and upper middle class, is, IMO, the backbone of society. However, they are taxed hard, have high payments to get by in life for pretty basic needs, and don't often get the chance to save enough for a crisis. I do believe that there should be something in place to protect these hard-working people who fall on hard times, because those hard times happen more often than we ever expected. I am so grateful that i have a job, that i have health insurance, a supportive family, and other insurance that i have saved for. earlier this year, i got pretty sick. for a moment, i had to think about what would happen if i couldn't work anymore. or, what would happen to my kids if i died. i support our family. i worked my butt off to get here. my dh is a vet who never had the chance to go to college, and is now doing that. if something happened to me, my kids and dh would be so screwed. i have life insurance, and pay insane amounts for that. but if i was just disabled? or if i am laid off in an industry where lay offs are happening every single day. what would happen to us? we could get by for a few months, and I hope that would be sufficient. but i live in fear every day because i know my safety net could be taken at any moment. i am ok with paying more to help people in such a position, as long as i know if i am ever in that position, i am protected as well.
I see what you're saying and it makes sense. I didn't really look at it from that perspective really. I think in my head I was looking at healthcare and thinking of benefits that are more encompassing and comprehensive (and costly) than just basic well visits and immunizations. KWIM? Reading what you wrote makes me look at things a little differently and I can see where you're coming from.
And I agree with what you said regarding the middle and upper middle class, 100%.
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| Posted 10/18/11 11:31 PM |
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