Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

I still didnt hear an answer to those opposing universal healthcare about the prison system. If prisoners are given a place to sleep, food and healthcare, why are any law abiding citizens not able to receive healthcare? How is this a system that is working?

And people abuse the system now, there will always be abusers of the system, freeloaders, theives etc. So its not a perfect system now.


And for the 100th time, no one is for freeloading, why people keep saying that is beyond me.


Finally, some people need to get some compassion and fast. God forbid something happens to you to make you change your views. I could easily say I worked hard, DH worked hard, our parents did etc and that is why we have what we have--but don't think there isn't a percentage of luck in there. Yes we worked hard and still do but guess what, we're a dime a dozen. Don't think you can't be replaced.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

ETA (bc my iphone won't let me edit)

ETA: the lack of compassion comes from your opinions that I think show lack of compassion for other humans. Your replies have made me come to this opinion.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Message edited 10/19/2011 12:26:02 AM.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Posted by evrythng4areason

Posted by LadyBugN2Buggies

Posted by evrythng4areason

i could accept that if i had no family

everyone dies at some point

thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..

everyone dies?

if you get sick or not get sick doesn't have anything to do with how hard you work.

no it doesn't, but accepting your lot in life does

i work hard, i've done my best
something happens, i can accept that

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Posted by brownie

Posted by evrythng4areason

Posted by LadyBugN2Buggies

Posted by evrythng4areason

i could accept that if i had no family

everyone dies at some point

thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..

everyone dies?

if you get sick or not get sick doesn't have anything to do with how hard you work.

no it doesn't, but accepting your lot in life does

i work hard, i've done my best
something happens, i can accept that

And the 25yr old that just got cancer should accept that too?

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Posted by Jennie0898

Posted by brownie

Posted by evrythng4areason

Posted by LadyBugN2Buggies

Posted by evrythng4areason

i could accept that if i had no family

everyone dies at some point

thankfully it hasn't happened to me
i know i'm lucky in many, many instances, but i also truly believe it relates to how hard i work..

everyone dies?

if you get sick or not get sick doesn't have anything to do with how hard you work.

no it doesn't, but accepting your lot in life does

i work hard, i've done my best
something happens, i can accept that

And the 25yr old that just got cancer should accept that too?

well, YEAH, duh...

don't you know?

such is life
life isn't fair
life sucks sometimes
that's the way it goes

and my personal favorite...
everyone dies

those are perfectly acceptable answers, now get back to working hard because as it's been explained, that's all that really matters.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Message edited 10/19/2011 3:17:04 AM.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

This has been a fascinating thread to read through, simply to see all the different points of views. The OP is incorrect about being part of the 1%. It's not something you can opt into. Until she rakes in a million dollars in income she is squarely part of the 99%, like it or not. It's not a choice. But, I admire her work ethic (''); and hope she makes it up there one day.

The discussion about healthcare certainly hijacked the original thread, but it's been interesting. I happen to be in favor of universal healthcare. Many counties have it and it works well. As a college student my DD used it in Denmark and again in France. My DS used it in Canada when on a trip with my husband, who paid for the clinic visit. Both were surprised by how reasonable it was.

On the subject of Occupy Wall Street, the group has a website with its concerns posted for anyone to read. Most make a lot of sense: www.occupywallstreet.com I had some sandwiches delivered to them tonight because what they are doing in their rather loopy way is bringing attention to some serious wrongs that exist in our economic system and in our government that have hurt millions of people here and abroad. Occupy groups have sprung up across the globe as people recognized the importance of what is being done in New York.

It's late, and I'm tired, but just think about a few of the issues:

1. Why should the middle class, that's most of us, be shouldering a larger burden of taxes than the highest earners? When people earning over a million a year - the now infamous 1% of the population - pay less in taxes percentage-wise than those making $50,000 and up, that should be a clear indication that something is very wrong, and basically unfair. Ask why that is happening and the honest answer is that those with higher incomes have more influence than those with less because of their ability to give larger donations to politicians and political parties, so they have gotten favors and concessions the rest of us could not even hope for. The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy are one of the privileges their influence has earned, and successfully kept thanks to the GOP (''); I'm a member, but not very proud of them anymore.

2. The banking debacle that brought this country's economy to its knees has yet to be addressed. Millions were thrown out of work, millions have lost their homes, cities and towns have had their tax bases collapse with their real estate markets, whole industries have almost gone under as a result and economies around the world have been adversely affected, yet no one has been punished. Why? More importantly no regulations have been put in place to prevent it from happening again.

3. Lobbyists have become a cancer in Washington. Ever since the restriction on campaign donations was struck down money from corporations and wealthy donors has flowed in. They can give unlimited amounts to political parties or to sway particular issues without having to identify themselves anymore. This is frightening if you think about it. The ads we see for or against candidates and issues could be paid for by anyone with an agenda, and that agenda might not have the public's best interest in mind. Think big oil, big banks, big pharma, etc.

Message edited 10/19/2011 2:20:16 AM.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Here's the resounding theme I hear from people who are anti - OWS.. not just on here.. but in my real life encounters as well.

"I work hard, I do my best, I pay my taxes .. if stuff happens to me I will just suck it up and deal - because that's part of the unspoken social contract we have as Americans."

I call BS. And I don't mean that to be mean - I mean it because I KNOW people are made of stronger stuff than THAT. If things work now - you don't need to tap into that inner resource that you have. You don't need to rely on anyone else except your families (btw.. the idea of relying on anyone else.. even your family .. is socialist in nature). Most of you have the luxury of ignoring the massive crisis before us because it hasn't effected you personally. Some of you see the problem, but since you don't see a way to fix it and since it's not effecting you personally - you can shrug your shoulders at it and ignore it.

But you are stronger than that. If push came to shove.. if suddenly the broken system turned on you.. you would be looking for answers to. Maybe you wouldn't be standing out in the cold on the street. Maybe you wouldn't be on message boards trying to call attention to it. Maybe you wouldn't be rattling the political cages... but I don't believe for one second you'd just sit there and eat the sh*t you've been served and smile. You'd rally. You'd try to figure out what YOU could do to fix things - if not for the world at the very least for your own families.

And that is what these people are doing. Things are BROKEN. Most have no CLUE how to fix it but they want attention paid. They want people to notice - people who can fix things.

Some people don't need to be served a sh*t sandwich personally to recognize that it's wrong when their neighbor gets one. Some people fight BEFORE it happens to them. Some wait.

Ever go to a breast cancer walk? Tons of people there have NEVER been effected by breast cancer.. but they go because they want to make a difference. They want to help find a cure for something that effects a lot of people in dramatic and terrible ways. You can say "Well those walks raise money for research!" But really they are more about raising AWARENESS so that research is considered a priority.. KWIM??

Same thing here. All those people standing in a park with signs are not going to find the cure to the broken system. But they are raising awareness. Geez.. look at Mitt Romney! A month ago he was ****** off and said that the protesters were dangerous.. now? He says he understands their point. People are paying attention. Decision makers are starting to see that people want change and they are paying attention. That is way better than if they'd all stayed home, sucked it up and wished the problem away.. don't you think?

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Posted by HeathKernandez

Posted by Hofstra26

I will not waste any time responding to the rest because quite frankly,

do us all a favor and STOP responding.

this lack of compassion comment because someone has a difference of opinion is getting old.

YOUR SAYING OTHERS HAVE lack of compassion???

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Did everyone stay up all night just to continue this thread?

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Message edited 10/19/2011 8:53:35 AM.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Posted by cateyemm

Did everyone stay up all night just to continue this thread?

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Posted by sunnyflies

This has been a fascinating thread to read through, simply to see all the different points of views. The OP is incorrect about being part of the 1%. It's not something you can opt into. Until she rakes in a million dollars in income she is squarely part of the 99%, like it or not. It's not a choice. But, I admire her work ethic (''); and hope she makes it up there one day.

The discussion about healthcare certainly hijacked the original thread, but it's been interesting. I happen to be in favor of universal healthcare. Many counties have it and it works well. As a college student my DD used it in Denmark and again in France. My DS used it in Canada when on a trip with my husband, who paid for the clinic visit. Both were surprised by how reasonable it was.

On the subject of Occupy Wall Street, the group has a website with its concerns posted for anyone to read. Most make a lot of sense: www.occupywallstreet.com I had some sandwiches delivered to them tonight because what they are doing in their rather loopy way is bringing attention to some serious wrongs that exist in our economic system and in our government that have hurt millions of people here and abroad. Occupy groups have sprung up across the globe as people recognized the importance of what is being done in New York.

It's late, and I'm tired, but just think about a few of the issues:

1. Why should the middle class, that's most of us, be shouldering a larger burden of taxes than the highest earners? When people earning over a million a year - the now infamous 1% of the population - pay less in taxes percentage-wise than those making $50,000 and up, that should be a clear indication that something is very wrong, and basically unfair. Ask why that is happening and the honest answer is that those with higher incomes have more influence than those with less because of their ability to give larger donations to politicians and political parties, so they have gotten favors and concessions the rest of us could not even hope for. The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy are one of the privileges their influence has earned, and successfully kept thanks to the GOP (''); I'm a member, but not very proud of them anymore.

2. The banking debacle that brought this country's economy to its knees has yet to be addressed. Millions were thrown out of work, millions have lost their homes, cities and towns have had their tax bases collapse with their real estate markets, whole industries have almost gone under as a result and economies around the world have been adversely affected, yet no one has been punished. Why? More importantly no regulations have been put in place to prevent it from happening again.

3. Lobbyists have become a cancer in Washington. Ever since the restriction on campaign donations was struck down money from corporations and wealthy donors has flowed in. They can give unlimited amounts to political parties or to sway particular issues without having to identify themselves anymore. This is frightening if you think about it. The ads we see for or against candidates and issues could be paid for by anyone with an agenda, and that agenda might not have the public's best interest in mind. Think big oil, big banks, big pharma, etc.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

Posted by Jesses-Girl

Posted by stickydust

Marxism seemed like a good common sense experiment but look at how that little experiment turned out for Cuba.

Everyone is so busy attacking each other and demonizing those who don't believe in free healthcare.

Communists and socialists believe that free healthcare is a fundamental right too. It's long been a core program in Cuba & the Czech Republic, two countries who rank at the bottom in terms of life expectancy & mortality rates for diseases like cancer, strokes & heart attacks.

Instead of those who can afford healthcare having access to good care, NO ONE will have good healthcare as the entire system collapses. Imagine having to delay an important medical procedure because the hospital doesn't have the time, space or manpower to help you. There's a reason Canadians turn to America when their system fails them.

Marxism has been proven time and time again to only work in theory.

Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...

So disturbing to read some of the comments on this thread. This country wouldn't exist if people were content to stay in their place. If everyone accepted ones lot in life, most of us on this board (women) would be SAHMs with no rights, our husbands would own everything, we would not be part of this political process. Most of us are relatives of immigrants so we probably wouldn't even be here--we would be back in Russia, Ireland, Italy, etc. I wouldn't exist actually--my grandparents never would have met. The Civil Rights movement never would have happened if people stayed in their place and accepted what was given to them. I could go on and on, but so much of our country's history revolves around people deciding they deserved a better life than the one they had been given.

Now, I'm all for working hard, avoiding debt when possible, and not working the system. As another poster said, I don't think anyone on this board is FOR handouts that aren't deserved. But since when is it not okay to ask for a better chance at life than the one you are given? If we, as Americans see a system that is flawed and rigged against us (and it is if you are one of the 99%), why is it wrong to point that out, question it, demand something better?

If you are doing well in this current crisis, I'm happy for you, I really am. But recognize that you are not doing well solely because you worked hard, saved, sacrificed, etc. You also have luck on your side. I know a lot of people who have done everything right, people near retirement who are getting pushed out of their jobs despite years and years of loyalty. And many of them work in the nonprofit sector, not corporate America. Good you may say--some institutions are doing what they should to save me some tax dollars. But I'm willing to bet most who say this are quite far from retirement--I'm one generation away. I don't want this to be me in another 15 years. Health care is another issue--why is this a luxury instead of a basic human right? Why is it anti-American to demand health care? And if you are content to not demand it because you have it now, you are foolish--a job loss coupled with a serious health issue could wipe out everything you worked hard and saved for.

Posting this, I know some will agree with me. Some will think I'm an idealistic idiot. And this is fine, this is part of our American system--to be able to say what you like and criticize each other, our government, etc.

But personally, I find it depressing that people are happy to accept their lot in life and not question the fairness of it, and condemn those who do.