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Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
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2BEANS
wow time is going fast.
Member since 9/07 16106 total posts
Name:
Tina
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
I cant believe this is still be debated about.. I cant stop thinking of this child and how horrible it is. All i can picture is a baby standing outside in diaper possible trying to get back into house and no on hearing her.. 
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Posted 2/7/09 2:32 PM  |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
My thoughts are very clear on this and will not change. The news said that the mother noticed the door opened.
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| Posted 2/7/09 2:55 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by leighla
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by kristinel
Here's a real life scenario. My aunt and uncle went on vacation in 1987 leaving their 1 and 2 year old children at home with a babysitter. While they were on vacation their house caught on fire and the babies died. My aunt and uncle ended up divorced and my aunt has become a complete wreck. Over the years she has slipped farther and farther away from reality. She is literally "insane", is on multiple drugs, sees multiple therapists, and to this day is obsessed over the death of her children. She is constantly replaying that vacation in her head and lives with the guilt that if she hadn't gone on the trip, or had taken the babies with her, her children would be alive today. So, judge these parents all you want, just remember that their pain is real and in no way will they ever be the same.
This would be me, absolutely. I have to be honest - I would never leave my child with anyone other than DH. That's just me. He is the only person I know who would give up his life for our child. I would never count on a babysitter to do that. I could never live with the guilt of what could happen.
I say this with all respect and admiration, because I think you are a great mom.
But if you live your life always in fear of what may happen, is that really living?
I never live in fear, actually. I'm a pretty fearless person. As a Buddhist, we live with the knowledge that death can happen at any time. It's not fearful for us, it is a constant reminder to live life to the fullest. And many things have happened in my life that taught me that at any given moment, anything can happen. To me, Cailen is the best thing to ever happen to me, and I believe that there are very few people on this planet who would automatically put their lives aside to protect him. And it's me and DH. It's not fear, it's being parents. I always think of the things that can happen that wouldn't be safe in every stuation. sometimes I do them, and sometimes I don't - especially if it would affect him.
I don't think it has taken the juice out of living for me at all. To me, going away on vacation while a babysitter watches him is not really living. Really living would be to have him with me. Worrying about how he is when I'm away from him is the occupational hazard of being a parent, not fear. Fear to me is BTDT by being raised in abuse. I got the fear part of my life out of the way as a child. 
Wow. I seriousluy think you have the best attitude and your views on being a mom are nothing short of wonderfully incredible. I don't want to  , because you didn't share this to be praised, and it seems condescending to , but what you wrote is really beautiful.
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| Posted 2/8/09 11:10 AM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
OK, I have to add my 2 cents here.
Every single day I am constantly worried that I am going to do something by mistake or on accident that will cause tragedy to my DS. Lately, my memory has not been what it used to be. I can leave my house, lock the door with my keys and 5 minutes later freak out because I don't know where my keys are. It scares me to death that my memory is going to affect something other than where I left my keys.
I find it very interesting how judgemental so many moms are. How many posts have I seen where a mom titles it "Worst mommy moment"... and then proceeds to tell a story about how their DC fell off the changing table or down the stairs. And every single mother on this board replies with the same thing... "Oh, that doesn't make you a bad mommy. Accidents happen."
And then we have other stories from the news about a child being left in a car or gets out of the house at 3am and dies... and there is a whole other reaction ranging from "that is a terrible tragedy to that parent should be locked away and have the key thrown out."
I know that the results of my examples are not the same. When a child falls from a changing table, the result is usually a bump or a bruise. But it is still an accident just like a child wandering out of the house in the middle of the night. I am not judging anyone, but I do think that if you allow your child to fall from a changing table, there is a moment that you are obviously not paying attention. And the consequences could potentially be just as tragic depending on how the DC falls.
So I wonder, for all of you who think this poor woman who did not check on her DC is a horrible person, why you never post the same about the ladies on this board who post "worst mommy moments"? Why is your opinion not the same for someone who lets a child fall from a changing table or someone who lets their child eat medicine or fall off a bed? Why is it that I have yet to see anyone make a comment in response to these posts other than "you are a great mom... we all make mistakes." And then throw in some hugs and smiles.
Personally, as a mother I realize that accidents happen and that none of us are perfect. I know that this woman is suffering in a way that I cannot even begin to comprehend over what happened and I am certainly not going to add to it by saying she is the one to blame.
So just because I am curious, if you are one of the moms who believes this woman is to blame and was neglegent and is horrible because she let this happen to her DC, what do you say to the moms who let their DC fall off a changing table???
ETA: Or ARE you one of the moms who has let their DC fall off the changing table? Because that would be interesting.
Message edited 2/8/2009 2:44:29 PM.
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| Posted 2/8/09 2:36 PM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22136 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
First of all, I'm not a parent, so I can't say what I would or wouldn't do. However, that said, I can't imagine NOT checking up on my child if I woke up to the dog barking and the door open. I know how I am with the stove before I go to bed. I wouldn't be able to sleep if I didn't check for the off chance that something MIGHT actually happen.
Second of all, I posted a few months back about a co-worker who lost her baby. It had made the news ( I won't say the scenario). She is back at work and you can see she is NOT the same person. It was an accident what happened to her daughter. She turned away for a minute and essentially, underestimated what her daughter was capable of doing. I'm sure never in her wildest dreams did she imagine her baby dying from looking away.
Hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure if either mom was given the opportunity to do it over, the would DEFINITELY change what they did. Rather, they have to live with it forever. It still doesn't make her a terrible mother. She made a stupid decision that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. Rather than crucify her for her neglect, send a thought her way that she will one day smile again.
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| Posted 2/8/09 3:18 PM |
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KateDevine
*
Member since 6/06 24950 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by leighla
As I stated in my post in the other thread, I can see how this would happen, based on my own experience.
I don't think it was intentional. I don't even think it was neglegent.
I think it was an honest to god human mistake.
It's very easy to sit back and say I would never, which some people on here seem to do a lot.
I would never forget my kid in a car.
I would never not check on my child.
I would never drive with snow on my roof.
Must be nice for some people to be so untouchable.
The rest of us are human and as much as we try to do everything right, we all make mistakes.
Hopefully they don't turn out as tragic as this and hopefully my friends would be more understanding.
This is exactly what I was going to say, but more eloquently.
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| Posted 2/8/09 4:11 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by jerseypanda
OK, I have to add my 2 cents here.
Every single day I am constantly worried that I am going to do something by mistake or on accident that will cause tragedy to my DS. Lately, my memory has not been what it used to be. I can leave my house, lock the door with my keys and 5 minutes later freak out because I don't know where my keys are. It scares me to death that my memory is going to affect something other than where I left my keys.
I find it very interesting how judgemental so many moms are. How many posts have I seen where a mom titles it "Worst mommy moment"... and then proceeds to tell a story about how their DC fell off the changing table or down the stairs. And every single mother on this board replies with the same thing... "Oh, that doesn't make you a bad mommy. Accidents happen."
And then we have other stories from the news about a child being left in a car or gets out of the house at 3am and dies... and there is a whole other reaction ranging from "that is a terrible tragedy to that parent should be locked away and have the key thrown out."
I know that the results of my examples are not the same. When a child falls from a changing table, the result is usually a bump or a bruise. But it is still an accident just like a child wandering out of the house in the middle of the night. I am not judging anyone, but I do think that if you allow your child to fall from a changing table, there is a moment that you are obviously not paying attention. And the consequences could potentially be just as tragic depending on how the DC falls.
So I wonder, for all of you who think this poor woman who did not check on her DC is a horrible person, why you never post the same about the ladies on this board who post "worst mommy moments"? Why is your opinion not the same for someone who lets a child fall from a changing table or someone who lets their child eat medicine or fall off a bed? Why is it that I have yet to see anyone make a comment in response to these posts other than "you are a great mom... we all make mistakes." And then throw in some hugs and smiles.
Personally, as a mother I realize that accidents happen and that none of us are perfect. I know that this woman is suffering in a way that I cannot even begin to comprehend over what happened and I am certainly not going to add to it by saying she is the one to blame.
So just because I am curious, if you are one of the moms who believes this woman is to blame and was neglegent and is horrible because she let this happen to her DC, what do you say to the moms who let their DC fall off a changing table???
ETA: Or ARE you one of the moms who has let their DC fall off the changing table? Because that would be interesting.
where do I begin. Firstly, let me say that I am one of "those" moms whose baby has fallen off the changing table **GASP**
there is a HUGE difference between having your child fall off the table, or off a swing or bang thier head and to FORGET your child in a car and allow them, cause them to boil to death, a HUGE difference
I cannot even fathom the comparison
ETA - and I NEVER said this mom was "horrible"....negligent yes, horrible person, horrible mother, no
again, BIG difference
I also wanted to add that I do not think the alone fact that this child got out and froze to death = negligence, for me, personally, it is the fact that the mother SAW the door ajar, knowing that her dd had "escaped the family home before" and did not check on her...that is the kicker for me
and maybe I am being too harsh, who knows, but it is just the way I feel
Message edited 2/8/2009 7:43:44 PM.
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| Posted 2/8/09 7:08 PM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by Mikismom
where do I begin. Firstly, let me say that I am one of "those" moms whose baby has fallen off the changing table **GASP**
there is a HUGE difference between having your child fall off the table, or off a swing or bang thier head and to FORGET your child in a car and allow them, cause them to boil to death, a HUGE difference
I cannot even fathom the comparison
ETA - and I NEVER said this mom was "horrible"....negligent yes, horrible person, horrible mother, no
again, BIG difference
I also wanted to add that I do not think the alone fact that this child got out and froze to death = negligence, for me, personally, it is the fact that the mother SAW the door ajar, knowing that her dd had "escaped the family home before" and did not check on her...that is the kicker for me
and maybe I am being too harsh, who knows, but it is just the way I feel
Stephanie, I definitely agree with you on many of the points that you make. I agree that IF the circumstances were exactly the same in the previous time that the DD wandered away from the house, this might change my opinion of the parents. But we really don't know all the facts. Maybe the last time it was during the day when the doors were not locked. Unfortunately, I think there are too many missing pieces to this story for any of us to make a fair judgement and because of that we are all filling in the missing pieces with assumptions of our own. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I assume the missing pieces are that the child did not unlock the doors before. You may look at things differently and therefore the missing pieces for you are that she did it before the same way and therefore this is just unforgiveable.
Maybe you didn't officially call her a bad mother, but when you say that the mom could have prevented her death and that this is inexcusable, to me that is basically saying the same thing.
As for my comparison to letting a child fall off the changing table... I don't judge you for letting that happen (I actually appreciate your admitting it because I was curious to hear opinions on it). Like I have said, my take is that accidents happen and I assume that you are as cautious with DD as you possibly can be. But I stand by my comparison. I don't see a huge difference. Whether your child falls off or wanders out of your home, someone is not paying 100% attention. As parents, we should automatically know that you can't take your eyes or hands off a child on a changing table for one second. Yet it happens all the time. Just because a child does not die from falling off the changing table does not make it less of an offense (or less of an accident). I guarantee that somewhere out there is a story of a child that fell from a changing table and possibly suffered life changing injuries, maybe even death. I'm sure this mother has plenty of reasons as to why she didn't check on DD when she found the door open just like many mothers have plenty of reasons as to why their child was able to fall several feet from a changing table. And unfortunately she now has to play out the scenario over and over in her mind for the rest of her life and always wonder "what if". I hope none of us every have to experience anything close to this pain.
To me, this is what makes our site intriguing. The fact that we all have different opinions and allow each other to maybe see things from a slightly different angle than our own.
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| Posted 2/8/09 8:39 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by nrthshgrl
Should they have checked the kids after she found the door ajar? Yes. I'm sure she's replaying that moment again & again in her mind. I don't think she's at "fault" for it. I picture a sleep deprived state, seeing a dog that nudged the door open & assuming it was the dog and only the dog.
I feel nothing but pure pity for that family.
100% agree- this scenario is not clear cut. The one where a pp wrote about a mom on the phone for 40 minutes with babies in the tub is.
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| Posted 2/8/09 8:48 PM |
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browneyedgirl
family is all that matters
Member since 6/06 6513 total posts
Name:
browneyes
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by KateDevine
Posted by leighla
As I stated in my post in the other thread, I can see how this would happen, based on my own experience.
I don't think it was intentional. I don't even think it was neglegent.
I think it was an honest to god human mistake.
It's very easy to sit back and say I would never, which some people on here seem to do a lot.
I would never forget my kid in a car.
I would never not check on my child.
I would never drive with snow on my roof.
Must be nice for some people to be so untouchable.
The rest of us are human and as much as we try to do everything right, we all make mistakes.
Hopefully they don't turn out as tragic as this and hopefully my friends would be more understanding.
This is exactly what I was going to say, but more eloquently.
i agree as well. i feel so badly for that family and would never judge them. hindsight is 20/20. it's easy to judge when it's not you that is the subject.
and i totally agree with the poster who wrote about posters on here calling themselves "worst mommy, etc". each of those moms had something happen to their child that might have been prevented. but you learn from mistakes and unfortunately, that mistake took the life of a baby.
i hope they can live their lives in peace for their own sakes and in memory of their child.
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| Posted 2/8/09 9:00 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by jerseypanda
To me, this is what makes our site intriguing. The fact that we all have different opinions and allow each other to maybe see things from a slightly different angle than our own.
I think you stated you perspective quite nicely and I appreciate you not bashing mine
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| Posted 2/8/09 9:25 PM |
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jodi714
Love my little girl!
Member since 2/06 3621 total posts
Name:
Jodi
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by jerseypanda
OK, I have to add my 2 cents here.
Every single day I am constantly worried that I am going to do something by mistake or on accident that will cause tragedy to my DS. Lately, my memory has not been what it used to be. I can leave my house, lock the door with my keys and 5 minutes later freak out because I don't know where my keys are. It scares me to death that my memory is going to affect something other than where I left my keys.
I find it very interesting how judgemental so many moms are. How many posts have I seen where a mom titles it "Worst mommy moment"... and then proceeds to tell a story about how their DC fell off the changing table or down the stairs. And every single mother on this board replies with the same thing... "Oh, that doesn't make you a bad mommy. Accidents happen."
And then we have other stories from the news about a child being left in a car or gets out of the house at 3am and dies... and there is a whole other reaction ranging from "that is a terrible tragedy to that parent should be locked away and have the key thrown out."
I know that the results of my examples are not the same. When a child falls from a changing table, the result is usually a bump or a bruise. But it is still an accident just like a child wandering out of the house in the middle of the night. I am not judging anyone, but I do think that if you allow your child to fall from a changing table, there is a moment that you are obviously not paying attention. And the consequences could potentially be just as tragic depending on how the DC falls.
So I wonder, for all of you who think this poor woman who did not check on her DC is a horrible person, why you never post the same about the ladies on this board who post "worst mommy moments"? Why is your opinion not the same for someone who lets a child fall from a changing table or someone who lets their child eat medicine or fall off a bed? Why is it that I have yet to see anyone make a comment in response to these posts other than "you are a great mom... we all make mistakes." And then throw in some hugs and smiles.
Personally, as a mother I realize that accidents happen and that none of us are perfect. I know that this woman is suffering in a way that I cannot even begin to comprehend over what happened and I am certainly not going to add to it by saying she is the one to blame.
So just because I am curious, if you are one of the moms who believes this woman is to blame and was neglegent and is horrible because she let this happen to her DC, what do you say to the moms who let their DC fall off a changing table???
ETA: Or ARE you one of the moms who has let their DC fall off the changing table? Because that would be interesting.
ITA!
This debate reminds me of the one we had months ago when the woman who left her daughter in the car was on Oprah. Anyway, it seems like whether it is "negligent" is based on the extent of the injury that ensues. What if after the mother closed the door and was going to bed, she happened to see the baby under a street light in the street so that she didn't check on the child but it was pure luck she prevented this horrific tragedy. Would that make her less negligent? Obviously, we wouldn't know about it, but her actions (or inactions) would be the same and I think many would be more likely to call it a close call just like we do when a child falls off a changing table because we aren't looking. We never think it will happen to us. That is part of human nature. When we take our eyes off our child for one second when they are on that changing table despite all the knowledge and warnings, we still don't think it will happen to us or we think we will be quick enough or whatever. But it could happen to us. A child could fall the wrong way and get seriously injured or worse. Ok, so my point is that this is a horrible tragedy and I think we all need to remember that it could be us (God forbid). We all do everything we can that is humanly possible to keep our children safe sometimes we are just that, human, and make a mistake/lapse in judgment/etc.
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| Posted 2/8/09 9:41 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by Mikismom
ETA - and I NEVER said this mom was "horrible"....negligent yes, horrible person, horrible mother, no
again, BIG difference
I also wanted to add that I do not think the alone fact that this child got out and froze to death = negligence, for me, personally, it is the fact that the mother SAW the door ajar, knowing that her dd had "escaped the family home before" and did not check on her...that is the kicker for me
and maybe I am being too harsh, who knows, but it is just the way I feel
Exactly, thank you. Why everytime a person says that people are being too harsh and parents make mistake they dont bring up the fact that this happened BEFORE!
It's like saying how many times does your child have to fall off a changing table before you realize you should prob have a closer watch because whatever reason.. till they sustain serious injuries? And I am only bring up this example cause it was mentioned. NOT because I think any mother on here who experienced this is a bad mother. I think the two examples are different unless this happens all the time to a child.
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| Posted 2/8/09 9:54 PM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: Spinoff - child freezes to death after leaving family home
Posted by Sash
Exactly, thank you. Why everytime a person says that people are being too harsh and parents make mistake they dont bring up the fact that this happened BEFORE!
It's like saying how many times does your child have to fall off a changing table before you realize you should prob have a closer watch because whatever reason.. till they sustain serious injuries? And I am only bring up this example cause it was mentioned. NOT because I think any mother on here who experienced this is a bad mother. I think the two examples are different unless this happens all the time to a child.
I definitely agree to you to an extent. One of the things I was trying to point out above, however, is that we don't know that this is exactly what happened the last time. They said in the first article that the child had wandered away from the house before. We don't know the circumstances surrounding it. Maybe it was in the middle of the day when she was playing outside. If she had never unlocked the doors before, how would a parent assume a 3 year old could do this in the middle of the night?
I guess I am attempting to try and get everyone to see that we don't have all the information to take such a solid position on how we feel about these parents. If these exact circumstances never happened before, how can we judge the parents for this very sad, extremely tragic accident?
And for the record, if the DD had unlocked the doors in the past and gotten out of the house I would completely agree with you that the parents did not do all they could have done. I just don't know that to be true or not so I give the benefit of the doubt.
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| Posted 2/8/09 11:18 PM |
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