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Really need some insight

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Karen
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Karen

Re: Really need some insight

I can't say that I am totally shocked she got the cops involved.

Let's be honest - most schools do not have the best reputation when it comes to issues like these, and since it doesn't sound like she knows you guys personally, she is covering her bases.

Who knows - maybe she has an older child that was being bullied and she didn't feel the school handled it appropriately so this time she is taking charge and setting up a paper trail??

ETA: IMO, I think it's a little ridiculous to call the cops on a 4yr old, but again, I am not in her shoes.

Message edited 9/23/2011 10:05:43 AM.

Posted 9/23/11 10:05 AM
 
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want2beamom
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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by nferrandi

Want2be a mom- when I spoke to the officer he said that initially he was going to set up a meeting with DH and I but after talking to me he could clearly see that was unneccesary. He said that he had to call as s follow up to her filing, but the report was going to state that we were handling things at home appropriately and that was going to be the end of it. He also said that DS name was not in the report, but I don't know how true or untrue that is.
As for school, I called them after the officer called me. They said until the police showed up at school to yak to them, they weren't aware she had any intentions of filing a report. They kept saying to me that DH and I are doing everything right in handling it at home. I think at this point they're starting to feel bad for DS even though he wasn't the "victim" here.



Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon If you ever need to talk, you can FM. I have a 4 year old, so I can totally empathizeChat Icon

Posted 9/23/11 10:05 AM
 

MST9106
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Re: Really need some insight

Its insane what people do these days! I mean these are 4 year old kids and like you said the school got very involved and handled it very well and so did you and your husband. I think it was totally unnecessary and ridiculous of her taking it this far! I understand you're trying to protect your child but what will going to the cops do? Lock him up? He's four years old for crying out loud!

Lots of Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon to you...

Posted 9/23/11 10:11 AM
 

itsbabytime
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Me

Re: Really need some insight

Posted by BargainMama

Is it possible there was more touching going on than you were told? Did you ask your son exactly where he touched her? Since you said they couldn't see in the video, I wonder if the girl told her mother it was MORE than what you thought it was? (not saying that your son touched her more than what was said...but the girl could be saying that)

I can say without a doubt if someone touched my child inappropriately, I would be filing a report also (to have it on record, not necessarily to have a child arrested!). However, if this was just "poking" on non-private parts, I think she went to far.



I agree with this.

I'm confused by the story - there were two older boys telling your DS what do do to her? And, you said they were telling him to touch her inappropriately? How old were these boys? I feel like your DS was a victim here too and that the ones that should have been in trouble are the older boys. My DS is 4 (albeit just turned 4) and I can't imagine him doing or thinking ANY of what you describe - I can't imagine any of his 4 yr old friends being capable of this either - that is why I am thinking maybe HE was being bullyed by these older boys to do stuff that he didn't even know what he was doing and in that case I think he is just as much of a victim as that little girl!

Posted 9/23/11 10:12 AM
 

munchkinbugs
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Lisa

Re: Really need some insight

WOW!!! You handled everything perfectly!

That mom needs to get a grip. What? Does she want a 4 year arrested? I don't understand. Chat Icon

And what about the other boys who were egging him on?

I'm sorry you are going thru this. Chat Icon

Posted 9/23/11 10:19 AM
 

munchkinbugs
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Lisa

Re: Really need some insight




I agree with this.

I'm confused by the story - there were two older boys telling your DS what do do to her? And, you said they were telling him to touch her inappropriately? How old were these boys? I feel like your DS was a victim here too and that the ones that should have been in trouble are the older boys. My DS is 4 (albeit just turned 4) and I can't imagine him doing or thinking ANY of what you describe - I can't imagine any of his 4 yr old friends being capable of this either - that is why I am thinking maybe HE was being bullyed by these older boys to do stuff that he didn't even know what he was doing and in that case I think he is just as much of a victim as that little girl!


ITA

A 4 year old can have no clue about any of this! Those older boys were being bullying!

Posted 9/23/11 10:21 AM
 

ns1011
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Nic

Re: Really need some insight

While I agree that this mother is taking the situation too far, I can imagine how scared she must have felt. My DD is only 3 months but the thought of anyone ever hurting her ( not saying thatnyour DS did - just speaking in general) is enough to drive me insane. It sounds to me like this mom pretty much acted out of irrational fear. I bet if she had taken a step back and really assessed the whole situation, she probably would realize that going to the police is just plain ridiculous. It sounds to me that she went home after speaking with the school and was influenced by someone else enough to get her all worked up all over again.

Now, here is my concern - why is no one addressing the fact that 2 older boys were the real "bullies" here. It is very clear that they were mildly aware of what they were doing. Have their parents been notified? Also, is it possible for you to speak with all the parents involved at some sort of supervised conference at the school?

Posted 9/23/11 10:33 AM
 

blu6385

Member since 5/08

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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by Straightarrow


Why would you even say you would think CPS, now this poor woman is going to worry about that now too!




Posted by doublestroller

this makes me livid. what the HELL is wrong with people? just like i can't stand all the "oh i would call CPS" posts on here, THIS just enrages me.




did everyone just see CPS and just stop reading Chat Icon

all i said i was i dont understand why she would call the cops and i would MAYBE MAYBE understand if she called CPS.

Why cause what is a cop going to do arrest a 4 year old it just makes no sense to me why she went there.

Like i have said already i think the way it was handled was good enough and i would only MAYBE take it further if it keeps happeing over and over again after the child was spoken too.

Message edited 9/23/2011 10:49:38 AM.

Posted 9/23/11 10:42 AM
 

nycgirl
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Re: Really need some insight

I'd call the mom & have a chat with her...
maybe over some coffee.
maybe bring your kid & let her watch him (I think to give a FACE and personality to the person who you get so angry at in your head changes things... KWIM?)

To me, it sounds like a total over-reaction on her part.

Posted 9/23/11 10:44 AM
 

doublestroller
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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by blu6385

Posted by Straightarrow


Why would you even say you would think CPS, now this poor woman is going to worry about that now too!




Posted by doublestroller

this makes me livid. what the HELL is wrong with people? just like i can't stand all the "oh i would call CPS" posts on here, THIS just enrages me.




did everyone just see CPS and just stop reading Chat Icon

all i said i was i thought understand why she would call the cops and i would MAYBE MAYBE understand if she called CPS.

Why cause what is a cop going to do arrest a 4 year old it just makes no sense to me why she went there.

Like i have said already i think the way it was handled was good enough and i would only MAYBE take it further if it keeps happeing over and over again after the child was spoken too.

i can't stand LIF "oh i would call CPS" posts in general...and this type of situation illustrates exactly why...

Posted 9/23/11 10:48 AM
 

blu6385

Member since 5/08

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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by doublestroller

can't stand LIF "oh i would call CPS" posts in general...and this type of situation illustrates exactly why...



sorry then if this wasnt directed at me Chat Icon i just wanted to make it clear that I wouldnt have just run and called CPS if i was in this situtaion

Posted 9/23/11 10:51 AM
 

Goobster
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Re: Really need some insight

Does something like that stay on record, for a 4 year old? Can a 4 yo even have a record?

It absolutely sounds like the school and you as parents handled it right. And it doesnt sound like anything I would go to the police over! I def think this parent is taking it way too far.

Can I ask what they are saying he did, that she filed a police report against a 4 year old?

I am so sorry you are going through this and I give you Chat Icon for discussing this with us, without using a fake name.

This whole thing sounds insane if you ask me. When I was a kid, there was a kid here or there in school that would try to kiss girls. Or girls that would try to kiss boys. Come on.

Did you ever try talking to the parent of the girl?

Message edited 9/23/2011 11:06:36 AM.

Posted 9/23/11 11:00 AM
 

curley999
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Re: Really need some insight

I have 2 DDs and thinking this situation thru I can see why the mom went to police to document the incident. Obviously not to get a 4 year old arrested, but if your son were to try this behavior again toward this girl or another girl, I would assume having the first incident documented will be enough grounds to have him removed from the bus and/or school. It is backup becuase unfortunatly schools do not always handle these problems correctly or follow thru and my childs saftly would be only priority. You have to put yourself in that moms shoes and imagine what she is thinking/feeling about what unfairly happened to her DD.

There does seem some gray area about what was actually done regaridng touching, if her DD reports your son touched her inappriopatly she needs to do all she can, becuase even though he is only 4, it is still very very wrong. Whether your son 'gets' that or not, isnt relevant, what was done to the girl and how that affects her, is. Also the older boys on the bus need to be spoken too as well as their parents.

Posted 9/23/11 11:01 AM
 

mnmsoinlove
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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by Hofstra26

Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Is that mom for real???? The police????? He's FOUR!!!!!! That is absolutely INSANE!!!! I would be SO furious. I too think the school handled it appropriately. I think the mother of the little girl is taking it WAAAAAAAY too far. This isn't high school, it's elementary school. These kids are still babies. I am so disgusted for you, I think that is terrible they would get the police involved. What is wrong with some parents???!!!!!! Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon

I couldn't agree more!!! Something is wrong with the mother of the girl. This isn't a criminal matter, zero reason for the police to be involved.

Posted 9/23/11 11:04 AM
 

MrsGmomof3
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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by curley999

I have 2 DDs and thinking this situation thru I can see why the mom went to police to document the incident. Obviously not to get a 4 year old arrested, but if your son were to try this behavior again toward this girl or another girl, I would assume having the first incident documented will be enough grounds to have him removed from the bus and/or school. It is backup becuase unfortunatly schools do not always handle these problems correctly or follow thru and my childs saftly would be only priority. You have to put yourself in that moms shoes and imagine what she is thinking/feeling about what unfairly happened to her DD.

There does seem some gray area about what was actually done regaridng touching, if her DD reports your son touched her inappriopatly she needs to do all she can, becuase even though he is only 4, it is still very very wrong. Whether your son 'gets' that or not, isnt relevant, what was done to the girl and how that affects her, is. Also the older boys on the bus need to be spoken too as well as their parents.



I agree.
If my DD came home and said that she had been touched by a boy and that she clearly said NO to him and he continued doing it, I do not care HOW old he is... 4 or 14... I would want it documented, I would want him taken off the bus, I would want him to have to go see the school psychologist, and most of all, I would want to make darn well sure that he was not allowed anywhere near my DD again.
No means NO

Sorry... not a popular opinion I know, but I stand by it.

DS was bullied on the bus when he was in K and the DISTRICT called the police. A report was filed. Most districts have a ZERO tolerance policy for this kind of behavior.

Message edited 9/23/2011 11:12:17 AM.

Posted 9/23/11 11:11 AM
 

eroxgirl
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Rebecca

Re: Really need some insight

What I wonder is how or if the other boys were handled? Were their parents called by the school? Visited by the cops? Because I think they play a key role here and while I definitely feel for the OP and her DS, I can understand if the cops were called on ALL parties involved, not just her 4 year old DS.

If it was just her DS then I think it's totally ridiculous and over the top.

I think after the girl involved, the OP's DS is the second most innocent person here. But the boys egging him on? That's where things go from innocent and playful to scary and dangerous. I would hope if the cops were called on the OP's child, then those other two got a visit as well because that's the part that seems to be overlooked. The instigators are the worst offenders, IMO, because they're sitting back and enjoying the show while manipulating everyone else..

Posted 9/23/11 11:11 AM
 

mamabear
LIF Adult

Member since 3/08

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Re: Really need some insight

I'm so sorry for what you have gone through. It seems like you have been handling it perfectly.

While I do think it was not really necessary to go to the police, I kind of understand the mother. The thought of anyone touching your daughter inappropriately and making her uncomfortable makes your skin crawl, and you want to do anything and everything to protect her. You don't really stop and think about the other parties involved; you just think about your child. You don't know what exactly this girl told her mother or how she reacted in the privacy of her own home. If my daughter came home crying and told me a story about boys teasing her on the bus and trying to force her to kiss them and touching her in ways that made her uncomfortable, I'm pretty sure i would react, and overreact, and take action. You also want to teach your daughter to report bad acts and not be afraid about speaking up and reporting. Maybe the daughter even said she wanted to go to the police. You just really can't know what happened on that side, unless you call the mom and ask to meet up with her for coffee or something. I'm relieved to hear that your son's name isn't in the report because he shouldn't have to suffer any long term consequences. At the same time, having a record of what happened at the school, on the bus, might be helpful in the future. If there are other instances involving other children down the road, maybe there will be a paper trail that the school isn't preventing such occurences.

Posted 9/23/11 11:13 AM
 

brownie
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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by curley999

I have 2 DDs and thinking this situation thru I can see why the mom went to police to document the incident. Obviously not to get a 4 year old arrested, but if your son were to try this behavior again toward this girl or another girl, I would assume having the first incident documented will be enough grounds to have him removed from the bus and/or school. It is backup becuase unfortunatly schools do not always handle these problems correctly or follow thru and my childs saftly would be only priority. You have to put yourself in that moms shoes and imagine what she is thinking/feeling about what unfairly happened to her DD.

There does seem some gray area about what was actually done regaridng touching, if her DD reports your son touched her inappriopatly she needs to do all she can, becuase even though he is only 4, it is still very very wrong. Whether your son 'gets' that or not, isnt relevant, what was done to the girl and how that affects her, is. Also the older boys on the bus need to be spoken too as well as their parents.




ITA...I still don't understand the part though w/the older two boys...did they get in trouble?

Posted 9/23/11 11:15 AM
 

Goobster
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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by MrsGmomof3

Posted by curley999

I have 2 DDs and thinking this situation thru I can see why the mom went to police to document the incident. Obviously not to get a 4 year old arrested, but if your son were to try this behavior again toward this girl or another girl, I would assume having the first incident documented will be enough grounds to have him removed from the bus and/or school. It is backup becuase unfortunatly schools do not always handle these problems correctly or follow thru and my childs saftly would be only priority. You have to put yourself in that moms shoes and imagine what she is thinking/feeling about what unfairly happened to her DD.

There does seem some gray area about what was actually done regaridng touching, if her DD reports your son touched her inappriopatly she needs to do all she can, becuase even though he is only 4, it is still very very wrong. Whether your son 'gets' that or not, isnt relevant, what was done to the girl and how that affects her, is. Also the older boys on the bus need to be spoken too as well as their parents.



I agree.
If my DD came home and said that she had been touched by a boy and that she clearly said NO to him and he continued doing it, I do not care HOW old he is... 4 or 14... I would want it documented, I would want him taken off the bus, I would want him to have to go see the school psychologist, and most of all, I would want to make darn well sure that he was not allowed anywhere near my DD again.
No means NO

Sorry... not a popular opinion I know, but I stand by it.

DS was bullied on the bus when he was in K and the DISTRICT called the police. A report was filed. Most districts have a ZERO tolerance policy for this kind of behavior.



Ok I respect this. BUT...as someone who has worked with children and seen in my own child, CHILDREN tell stories that are exaggerated, untrue or somehow twisted. I have seen my own DD, 3 years old, do this. So doesn't this boy have any rights as to everyone finding out what DEF happened before running to the police? That's just not fair to him.

Children DO tell stories that are somehow skewed from how they REALLY happened. All kids do this at some point or another, and we have an obligation to find out the truth before accusing a child, 4 yrs old. I know no r one wants to think their child twisted a story or lied, but yes, all of our kids can. And this goes both ways in this story. For the boy and the girl, what exactly happened? Can't that be discussed or figured out before involving the police?

Message edited 9/23/2011 11:17:43 AM.

Posted 9/23/11 11:15 AM
 

avabrodymamma
LIF Adult

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Re: Really need some insight

I'm soo sorry this is happening to you and DS. Totally over blown. You did everything right.Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon

Posted 9/23/11 11:20 AM
 

Hofstra26
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Re: Really need some insight

Posted by MrsGmomof3

Posted by curley999

I have 2 DDs and thinking this situation thru I can see why the mom went to police to document the incident. Obviously not to get a 4 year old arrested, but if your son were to try this behavior again toward this girl or another girl, I would assume having the first incident documented will be enough grounds to have him removed from the bus and/or school. It is backup becuase unfortunatly schools do not always handle these problems correctly or follow thru and my childs saftly would be only priority. You have to put yourself in that moms shoes and imagine what she is thinking/feeling about what unfairly happened to her DD.

There does seem some gray area about what was actually done regaridng touching, if her DD reports your son touched her inappriopatly she needs to do all she can, becuase even though he is only 4, it is still very very wrong. Whether your son 'gets' that or not, isnt relevant, what was done to the girl and how that affects her, is. Also the older boys on the bus need to be spoken too as well as their parents.



I agree.
If my DD came home and said that she had been touched by a boy and that she clearly said NO to him and he continued doing it, I do not care HOW old he is... 4 or 14... I would want it documented, I would want him taken off the bus, I would want him to have to go see the school psychologist, and most of all, I would want to make darn well sure that he was not allowed anywhere near my DD again.
No means NO

Sorry... not a popular opinion I know, but I stand by it.

DS was bullied on the bus when he was in K and the DISTRICT called the police. A report was filed. Most districts have a ZERO tolerance policy for this kind of behavior.



Really though? I don't know, I think this is a little harsh. No means no??? He wasn't raping this girl, he's a 4 yr old little boy that probably didn't mean anything by it or even know what he was doing. He more than likely thought he was playing and isn't old enough or mature enough to understand when it's making someone else uncomfortable. He's 4!!!! That's a BIIIIIIG difference from a 14 yr old doing the same thing. I don't agree with you AT ALL!

Personally, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, but I am disgusted by the world we live in today. That a parent would not give a 4 yr old child the benefit of the doubt before running to the police or CPS or whomever is so sad to me. This child is a BABY. A BABY!!! I cannot fathom the idea that a year from now some crazy a$$ parent would be calling the police on my BABY and trying to have her thrown out of school or off the bus because of INNOCENT childhood behavior. Children are curious and they also don't know any better in most cases. That's where parenting comes in and in this case, and I would think in most cases, the OP did a fantastic job of handling the situation.

I think it's so sad the lack of trust, compassion, and humanity people have towards one another nowadays. I have a DD and if I were in that mother's shoes my first instinct would be, he's a child and he doesn't understand. I would of course expect his mom to at least speak with him but outside of that I would not really push the issue any further. The LAST thing I would do is run to the police and ensure the child has a "paper trail" of behavior so we can "get 'em" the next time he is behaving like a CHILD!!!!!

I was a teacher before having my DD and it really bothers me when people have the attitude like the teachers and the schools don't care and don't do what's right by the kids. Trust me, 99.99999% of school staff care about your kids and do everything to ensure their safety. I am not saying to be complacent as a parent but have a little trust in the school system and the people who are caring for your kids each and every day. In this case, I think the school did everything right. I don't know what more people expect, a public lynching of a little boy so he REALLY gets the message??

I don't know, I'm just a little taken aback by some of the responses.

Message edited 9/23/2011 11:30:32 AM.

Posted 9/23/11 11:28 AM
 

nferrandi
too excited for words

Member since 10/05

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Nicole

Re: Really need some insight

Let me clarify about the older boys. They are brothers. One was across the aisle, one was behind DS. Apparently DS was bothering her for a while, he was pushing, threw her backpack over the seat, that kind of thing. Then it was stated that one of the boys tried to hold her down, but there was no evidence of that on the video, which leads me to question the full validity of her story. The other two boys parents were called in as well, and were called by the officer too. The officer felt the mother may have been more upset about the older boys then my DS.

Posted 9/23/11 11:30 AM
 

Goobster
:)

Member since 5/07

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:)

Re: Really need some insight

Posted by Hofstra26
Really though? I don't know, I think this is a little harsh. No means no??? He wasn't raping this girl, he's a 4 yr old little boy that probably didn't mean anything by it or even know what he was doing. He more than likely thought he was playing and isn't old enough or mature enough to understand when it's making someone else uncomfortable. He's 4!!!! That's a BIIIIIIG difference from a 14 yr old doing the same thing. I don't agree with you AT ALL!

Personally, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, but I am disgusted by the world we live in today. That a parent would not give a 4 yr old child the benefit of the doubt before running to the police or CPS or whomever is so sad to me. This child is a BABY. A BABY!!! I cannot fathom the idea that a year from now some crazy a$$ parent would be calling the police on my BABY and trying to have her thrown out of school or off the bus because of INNOCENT childhood behavior. Children are curious and they also don't know any better in most cases. That's where parenting comes in and in this case, and I would think in most cases, the OP did a fantastic job of handling the situation.

I think it's so sad the lack of trust, compassion, and humanity people have towards one another nowadays. I have a DD and if I were in that mother's shoes my first instinct would be, he's a child and he doesn't understand. I would of course expect his mom to at least speak with him but outside of that I would not really push the issue any further. The LAST thing I would do is run to the police and ensure the child has a "paper trail" of behavior so we can "get 'em" the next time he is behaving like a CHILD!!!!!

I was a teacher before having my DD and it really bothers me when people have the attitude like the teachers and the schools don't care and don't do what's right by the kids. Trust me, 99.99999% of school staff care about your kids and do everything to ensure their safety. I am not saying to be complacent as a parent but have a little trust in the school system and the people who are caring for your kids each and every day. In this case, I think the school did everything right. I don't know what more people expect, a public lynching of a little boy so he REALLY gets the message??

I don't know, I'm just a little taken aback by some of the responses.



I am ONE MILLION % with you on this.
t
Times have really changed. I am ALL for protecting children. But what about this boy? Doesn't he deserve protection from allegations that may be overblown, skewed, or false entirely?

When i was a kid, I can't even tell some of the stories of things I have seen or experienced, b/c clearly in today's society, it would be police report worthy. Personally I think it was just kids being kids, unless I or my friends were abused by each other?

Kids play doctor. Kids are curious. Kids are often just innocent. Kids may mimic what they see. But kids also may tell stories that are somehow not totally true.

I know some people do not want to believe THEIR child can lie or misrepresent the truth. But it's just a child's nature to sometimes tell a story in a way that makes it sound much worse than it is. KWIM?

ITA with Hofstra. I think way too much is being made of this. Even if it were my child, I would want to speak with the other parents and form my OWN conclusions before running to the police. In fairness to all parties and with the intelligence that we are dealing with children and they may not even realize what TRULY happened.

Posted 9/23/11 11:39 AM
 

tara73
carseat nerd

Member since 11/09

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Name:
Buttercup

Re: Really need some insight

Posted by Hofstra26

Really though? I don't know, I think this is a little harsh. No means no??? He wasn't raping this girl, he's a 4 yr old little boy that probably didn't mean anything by it or even know what he was doing. He more than likely thought he was playing and isn't old enough or mature enough to understand when it's making someone else uncomfortable. He's 4!!!! That's a BIIIIIIG difference from a 14 yr old doing the same thing. I don't agree with you AT ALL!

Personally, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, but I am disgusted by the world we live in today. That a parent would not give a 4 yr old child the benefit of the doubt before running to the police or CPS or whomever is so sad to me. This child is a BABY. A BABY!!! I cannot fathom the idea that a year from now some crazy a$$ parent would be calling the police on my BABY and trying to have her thrown out of school or off the bus because of INNOCENT childhood behavior. Children are curious and they also don't know any better in most cases. That's where parenting comes in and in this case, and I would think in most cases, the OP did a fantastic job of handling the situation.

I think it's so sad the lack of trust, compassion, and humanity people have towards one another nowadays. I have a DD and if I were in that mother's shoes my first instinct would be, he's a child and he doesn't understand. I would of course expect his mom to at least speak with him but outside of that I would not really push the issue any further. The LAST thing I would do is run to the police and ensure the child has a "paper trail" of behavior so we can "get 'em" the next time he is behaving like a CHILD!!!!!

I was a teacher before having my DD and it really bothers me when people have the attitude like the teachers and the schools don't care and don't do what's right by the kids. Trust me, 99.99999% of school staff care about your kids and do everything to ensure their safety. I am not saying to be complacent as a parent but have a little trust in the school system and the people who are caring for your kids each and every day. In this case, I think the school did everything right. I don't know what more people expect, a public lynching of a little boy so he REALLY gets the message??

I don't know, I'm just a little taken aback by some of the responses.



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Seriously. The school handled it appropriately. Give them a chance to do their danged jobs before you go running to the police. If the school doesn't respond, then you can consider further action. Garbage about a "paper trail" with the police. You already have a paper trail, with the school! And if the school hasn't documented it YOU should have.. on a piece of paper with the date, who was contacted etc. Even the "bullies" have some rights too. They have the right to correct their behavior, they have the right to get help if they have problems.. and most of all they have a right to be in school. This isn't a "one and done" country, especially for children. Heck, even felons get 3 shots before going to jail for life!!!Chat Icon

Posted 9/23/11 11:39 AM
 

brownie
Baby #1 is here!

Member since 11/08

13903 total posts

Name:

Re: Really need some insight

Message edited 10/19/2011 11:04:04 PM.

Posted 9/23/11 11:44 AM
 
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