Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

*DISCLAIMER* - This is a serious question - and one NOT intended at all to start drama (so please, let's play nice )

Let me give some examples of what I mean by this question, so there are no "misunderstandings'.
I am referring to not wanting children on airplanes, or weddings, or restaurants that don't have a cartoon character as a mascot, annoyance at picture cards on the holidays, irritation over strollers on public transportation, not having toerance for children that are not our own, people questioning when/ how soon/ how far apart/ how many children someone else should have, etc...

This is not geared at any posts/posters specifically, I just brought up these examples for familiarity because we HAVE seen them here on LIF, but I do see it in everyday life, too. Two recent examples of things that have happened to me are actually being DENIED to order off of the children's menu for my DS, because they felt he was too young for food and that I would eat it (although I had also ordered my own lunch) AND someone in a store actually threatening that I had better watch myself while glaring at my child. When did people become so JADED?

Perhaps, I am noticing it more and more since I have become a mother. Admittedly, when I was much younger (late teens or so), I was the 1st one to when I heard a baby crying or saw a toddler throwing a tantrum. As I got older, I became more tolerant, and now that I have my own child, I (obviously) understand and sympathize.

I can really even apply this question to parenting in general. Does other people's "child intolerance" affect your parenting style at times? I have caught myself actually "shhh-ing" my DS for having too good a time in a store, for ex, because the person next to me was rolling there eyes and seemed put out that he was there.
I have a friend and neighbor who is older and has raised 6 amazing children (now adults). When we are out together, I can not tell you how many times she has told me "leave him alone, he isn't doing anything wrong, he is just a baby" (like when he is squealing and I try to quiet him in Costco in fear of disturbing others).

What ever happened to taking in the excited squeals of a child and letting it bring a smile to your face? To hearing a belly laugh and laughing right along? To the seeing the magic in the world that can sometimes only be seen through the eyes of a child. To finding wonder in the small everyday things?
I bet that if really take a breath, a step back, and take the time to look, I mean really SEE a child, that we can ALL learn a thing or two from them.

Message edited 1/21/2010 12:37:11 PM.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

I don't think the world is changing. I think as parents, we may notice it more.

There has always been upscale resturants that cater to the child-free arena. There has always been certain boutiques/shops same thing. I see nothing wrong with adult-only parties/weddings. As a parent, I sometimes enjoy these occassions.

As a parent, and a former resturant manager, DH & I do bring DS to places that are kid friendly. I worked in a Chuck E. Cheese for 8 years. That places its ok but I find high end resturants not so much. This is JMO.

To give you an example, we went to Outback this past weekend. They were so great to us and our fussy son. Everyone was talking to him and our waitress could tell right when we sat down, he was antsy. She brought out his chicken fingers before our drinks. So they catered to us. Kudos to the Outback!!

I also find discplining has changed. Parents are just less strict I find and this may be noticeable when you are out in public and a child is running crazy. I was raised in a house where if I was rude, my mother would pinch me. May be "child abuse" to some, but it kept me in line.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

I don't think people have any right to expect the whole world to admire or welcome their child.

There ARE places for children, but that is not to say they should be welcomed everywhere. If I go out w/o mi kids to a "nicer" restaurant I really don't think I would enjoy a child making noise. There are times and places for everything and there is nothing wrong with that.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

It think it's a general feeling of selfcenterness.

I don't think it's specific to children actually.

It's ANYTHING that annoy someone.

It's the red light and cannot wait because it would require waiting 3 minutes for another green light.

It's the line that is too long. The person who cuts in line while on her cellphone when the cashier says next and YOU were next but she can't wait.

It's driving in a turn only lane to cut in front of you at the end because they could not wait in the 1 lane road going straight.

It's the person at a stop sign who decides to pull in front of you at 15 mph because they are tired of waiting.

It's me me me!!!!!

The sense of entitlement has become such a huge issue.

But yes, then you will be told that YOU have a sense of entitlement because you use a stroller in a subway. That your 14 months old child should learn to walk. Geez... watch out if your kid is not walking by then!

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

YES!

I think people just need to live and let live.

Everyone was a child once with a mother in the position of the mothers that these people complain about. If it were your mother when you were a child trying to get through her day and do her best for you, I think some people need to consider how they would have wanted their own mother treated.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

This was well put

With that said I do think there are places that children do not belong (weddings are a great example..IMO) hair/nail salons and thats just because I feel a child should not have to sit still while their mother is getting her hair done for two hours its just not fair to the child and honestly a salon is no place for a child to run around. Children should not have to sit still, they are kids they should be loud and ask questions and laugh out loud, run around etc.

I do find myself telling my DD to behave when we're in the supermarket or a church, no running and thats my parenting style thats really not a place to be running and kids also need to learn that certain places you just can't make noise yes she is a toddler now so she may not get it but eventually she will I do not think I'm altering my parentying style because of society but I believe I am instilling right from wrong so eventually she will get it.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

I really don't feel it's "changed", in total honestly. THe world, in particular, NY, is a big place, catering to EVERY kind of lifestyle imaginable!!!! For God's sake if you can't find your "comfort zone" here, then book a flight to the moon!!!! You can join social circles AND virtual circles that support your lifestyle, so I think our world offers more opportunity than EVER for one to find their "place".

Having been "CF" for 41 YEARS, I can see both sides of the equation - yes, I've travelled the world, I've at out of control kids (but more at the PARENTS), I've giggled with a stranger's baby, all that & more.

Now as a parent, I can honestly say that in my little neighborhood in Queens people have ASTOUNDED me with their kindness and generosity of spirit toward my little one. I love my neighbors, even the ones whose names I don't know, who give the baby a smile, ask how he's doing, or just say "QUE LINDOOOOOOO" as we stroll by. My DH and I are constantly saying how amazed we are at the kindness of strangers towards our little guy. I've had 2 incidents of someone "Shhhssshing" DS, or outright GLARING because he was happy and giggling. I've said something back, but walk away thinking that person is basically mentally ill to give the stank eye to a 1 year old. And I stand by that.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Many times, I was pleasantly surprised at how child friendly places are. Now that I'm a dad, we of course bring DC almost everywhere. Many restaurants love kids, the wait staff are always smiling when they see kids, even at higher-end restaurants.
There are also a lot of child-oriented places now, where there weren't years ago. I think society is leaning more towards catering towards kids and parents. Maybe that's why sometimes you see people being more upset than they used to. People who don't like kids are being slowly pushed into a corner. I don't blame them, either. It's hard to be surrounded by something you don't want to be surrounded by all the time.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

do I think the world is changing? no

b/c I travel all over the world and people in other countries EMBRACE children. fancy restaurants, shows, being outside etc.

the flip side is...the kids know how to behave in this situation.

I don't like to deal with poorly behaved children, b/c I am just not accustomed to it in my home/life. there was no democracy, no talk back, no debate. EVER. there was no "kids will be kids" when the children were given the opportunity to be privy to the adult world.

we went to my dads jazz concerts and everything. we didn't run around the theatre or club. we sat there. for HOURS. and listening to JAZZ

I think as parents try out newer and different (and at times more lenient) parenting styles, and children are given more freedom to behave in ways that some may not be accustomed to..people are growing intolerant of that...at least I am

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Personally, I think it's a function of the state of the world these days. Everyone is way more stressed, broke, overworked, and underpaid than they were during previous generations. Nowadays, both parents are working and struggling with paying the bills and saving for the dismal future and trying to find time to spend with their families amidst all the other responsibilities, and honestly, on the rare occasion that an adult gets to go out to a nice restaurant or a wedding, I think they just want a peaceful break. I have 2 children and totally understand that there should be some places where people can go and not have to hear or see children running around or crying or having a tantrum or throwing food, etc. There is so much "noise" in our daily lives that why is it so wrong to want to de-stress a bit? It doesn't mean that you don't love or appreciate children in general.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Message edited 1/21/2010 12:59:33 PM.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

CF crashing in hehehe teehhehe

I think its the opposite. We are becoming more tolerant with children in areas that children normally did not go before. My parents never had taken us to a restaurant outside of a kiddy place when i was kid. My grandparents NEVER had taken out children ever at any restaurant just like drive and park places.

Subway - my dad said he never saw strollers in subways when he started working. (RUSH HOUR) now he sees them every so often - but typically the tiny ones that take only one spot up not the SUV ones.

My parents/grandparents told me children only went to certain places/certain houses and typically they didn't go out much not like now where parents are zipping all over and taking kids everywhere. Not saying its bad, or good or whatever it is the truth. Kids are going everywhere now whereas before they were kept home mostly or local.

As far as people's tolerance on children outside of the above. I think in general people have less patience with everything. I don't want to get out of work and hear a kid screaming on the supermarket line, am i going to beat the kid? No LoL but i may think in my head "i wish to pop your head off you little brat" and i am sure that happened 20 years ago as well.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

No.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Posted by 1stimemom

*DISCLAIMER* - This is a serious question - and one NOT intended at all to start drama (so please, let's play nice )

in fear of disturbing others).

What ever happened to taking in the excited squeals of a child and letting it bring a smile to your face? To hearing a belly laugh and laughing right along? To the seeing the magic in the world that can sometimes only be seen through the eyes of a child. To finding wonder in the small everyday things?
I bet that if really take a breath, a step back, and take the time to look, I mean really SEE a child, that we can ALL learn a thing or two from them.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Non-parent here.

But honestly, I think this is just a perspective issue..and it all depends on where you are coming from, that will determine your perspective.

To me, the world has become MORE child tolerant than ever before.

My parents never even thought TWICE to try and insist that we be invited to a wedding or most parties at friend's houses, with them....yet these days many people get offended and upset and INSIST their kids be invited. They just firmly believed, its NOT a place for kids.

Or some restaurants, that were a little more upscale, because they didn't want to bring a toddler around, again, my folks weren't fans of bringing us out, they would get a sitter. But if I'm out at a place that I'm paying $60 for a steak, its just as likely children will be surrounding me, at tables with families. My folks will be out and say "I never brought you guys out to a place like this when you were so young, I just don't understand it....just not something you did years ago."

I'm not complaining about it --- but I think it just depends on what side of the spectrum you are, because to me, the world is all about being child centric...but clearly many moms on here may not feel the same way.

Message edited 1/21/2010 1:04:45 PM.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Message edited 1/21/2010 1:17:10 PM.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

I agree, and I agree it is just not related to children. People are so intolerant of others in general. And sadly, the opinion of 5 define the opinion of 100 if you know what I mean.

No matter what you do, someone won't like it. It really is a me me me world.

My first child will be here in about 5 weeks. I don't expect the world to fall in love with her the way DH and I will fall in love with her. But I expect tolerance. Just because I have a baby doesn't mean I don't need to go buy groceries. It doesn't mean that I can't go into a casual non-child themed restaurant and eat dinner. Of course if she flips, we will leave. But she is a baby, not cryptonite. I might even need to go to the mall or another store. I don't care who I p!ss off-I have a right to live my life and my child does not make me an untouchable. I am not going to become a shut in, not take a subway with my stroller, not have lunch with my DD because someone might get annoyed. And if you don't like my holiday cards with my little girl? Throw them out.

I have seen both sides at this point in my life. Everyone's time is important whether you have children or not. Everyone has to be courteous of each other. But as long as people feel they are owed something, it won't happen. People without kids will park in stork parking, make me waddle from afar while they honk at me. When I have a baby, if I need to grab two more things at the market and she is fussing, tough for everyone around me.

It is just insanely ridiculous that people are so ridiculously intolerant of people. I don't expect people without children to kiss my tush and bend over backwards for me when my DD arrives and likewise, they shouldn't expect me to do that for them. I am not one to take my child to a fancy adult restaurant (I probably want alone time with DH), but I am not going to stop doing common things to live my life.

And what is more insane is the disdain so many people have for children-why? Because they are little? Because they are learning the ways of the world? IMO and I am not looking for flames, ageism is no better than racism. It is intolerance of another any way you look at it.

Not all kids are brats. And not all adults are kind and courteous people. It is what it is.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

i think everyone justs needs to get over themselves and accept that kids are people too, they make noise and throw tantrums. It is NOT a reflection of good or bad parenting, it is the nature of children, at least toddler aged children.

Yes, there are places were children dont belong, but out on the street, in stores, on public transportation, I think people just need to stop being so self centered and concerned with how it is affecting me, me, me. Is your life any worse off an hour later bc of it, no, so get over it.

Im sorry, but thats how I feel.

Re: Do you feel that the world is becoming child intolerant? (LONG)

totally depends on who your dealing with. I find that people who don't have tolerance for my DS, don't really have tolerance for anything! Or maybe they just don't like kids haha

We had a big family dinner at peter lugers, my one year old DS and my 3 year old nephews were there, being loud little boys as usual. everyone smiled at them and ppl were so nice ! my DS knocked over an entire thing of steak sauce I was mortified but the waiter was such a sweet heart, and cleaned it up with a smile.

nowadays with both parents working and such, we have such little time with our children. I don't want to give up any time with them, whether it's to go to a restaurant, wedding etc .