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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by dandr10199
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by DandN
Posted by lipglossjunky73
I also can't get past the thought she named her son trig after trigger....
Actually, Trig is a Scandinavian name that means Faithful. His middle name is Paxson (sp?) which is after an area in Alaska that she has always loved.
love it so much she wants to drill?
See, now this is where you loose me.
I USED to be a card carrying, PETA member, left wing uber liberal. I GET where you are coming from Liza, I do. I was a vegan for two years. My SIL is one. I rarely eat meat now, but LOVE a good steak once in a while.  I have been where you are. I know that vegans honor and respect all life, human or animal.
However, to suggest that someone named their kid after a gun trigger... well that is just plain ignorant, ill informed, and using that ignorance to spread lies about someone that YOU DO NOT KNOW AT ALL. It is a family name. Google it.
While you are at it, Google how many people in Alaska WANT us to drill...I'll give you a hint...it is A LOT, like 75%-80% of the people who live there. She was voted in on the "energy platform" in Alaska, she has a 90% approval rating. Say what you want about people who live there, but 90% of people WHO LIVE THERE EVERYDAY cannot be wrong. I doubt all 90% are uneducated too.
Just my two cents...if you want more people to see your side of things, PLEASE do not go the route of innuendos and ignorant comments. Investigate HOW people actually feel about drilling WHO LIVE THERE and research the name before posting that she named him after a gun trigger. Liza, you are a sweetheart and I love your posts on parenting, but come on, it is really far reaching to say she named her son after a gun trigger b/c she likes to hunt.
I still love ya anyway. 
When I hear how die-hard she is about NRA, the name Trig just, well, triggers that thought - not her doing - its my stupid brain wandering off to places it shouldn't...
And, I know she isn't the only one for drilling, it just makes me Mad to think that with all the issues out there, this is our oil solution, KWIM?
love you too! 
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Posted 9/3/08 3:16 PM  |
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GioiaMia
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by lipglossjunky73
When I hear how die-hard she is about NRA, the name Trig just, well, triggers that thought - not her doing - its my stupid brain wandering off to places it shouldn't...
And, I know she isn't the only one for drilling, it just makes me Mad to think that with all the issues out there, this is our oil solution, KWIM?
love you too!
I would just like to note how I believed you the second that you said it too!  I have too much faith in your research !!!!!!
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:17 PM |
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
I understand you are so passionate about this topic; BUT please admit that assuming she named her son after a gun trigger was a little loopy. 
Me... Loopy? 
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:18 PM |
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by lipglossjunky73
What it comes down to is I have beef (har har) with mortals deciding certain lives have more importance than others cuz god said. That includes animals. Yes, I value Cailens life more than a wolf's but mama wolf would say otherwise. And another mom will value her childs life more than Cailens. Who is right? Who is wrong? I have the gun and the chopper and the law that says its ok.... That makes me a little more right and somehow, somewhere god is agreeing?
Did you forget you were the nonjudgemental vegan?
Posted by lipglossjunky73
I'm a nonjudgemental Vegan. I actually think people who eat what they hunt can be ecologically sound. However, hunting for sport, like aerial wolf hunting, is killing for fun. And I doubt god would approve of that. All life should be honored and respected If the being is innocent...
I'M not judging at all - I'm saying others are. 
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:20 PM |
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eroxgirl
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by MarisaK
Posted by Tilde
I have a question and I don't feel like starting another thread. How important is the abortion debate to everyone? Obviously, I know it is a VERY important issue regardless of your stance but are you willing to vote or NOT vote based on this issue alone?
For example I am pretty pro life, but if I liked a candidate for other reasons I would no problem voting for a pro choice candidate it just isn't my number one priority - I am more concerned about economics, foreign policy etc. Everyone seems SO focused on Palin's pro life stance, it made me curious.
Personally, it's on the very top of my list - I'd NEVER EVER vote for a candidate who was pro-life
I'm the same way. I just CAN NOT vote for someone who is pro-life. Every other quality would have to be perfectly aligned with my ideals in order for me to overlook that point, and even then I don't know if I could do it.
I think, and this is pure assumption here but it makes perfect sense to my brain so I'm sharing, it's easier for someone who is pro-life to vote for a candidate who is pro-choice when the rest of the platform matches up with their views because abortion is already legal...
but for me to vote for someone who is pro-life - I can't take the chance that this person will be the catalyst to overturning Roe v. Wade.
If abortion were already illegal, I'd have an easier time voting for someone pro-life so long as I agreed with the rest of their campaign.
I can deal with something I disagree with staying the same easier than I can deal with something I agree with changing.
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:32 PM |
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Eireann
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
I have a question about this whole pro-life/choice thing...
I thought an integral part of the Roe decision was the question of states' rights v. federal laws. In other words, if the Roe decision was ever overturned, then abortion issues would be returned to the states to decide in a democratic process--one in which we all would have a say.
So, if the residents of Oklahoma, for argument's sake, voted against abortion clinics in their state then that's what THEY want. If the residents of New Jersey vote for them, they remain. Right? I truly believe here in NY, we don't have to worry about this issue being changed, but should we be in panic mode with this issue anyway?
Please clarify! 
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:35 PM |
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Ophelia
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Eireann
I have a question about this whole pro-life/choice thing...
I thought an integral part of the Roe decision was the question of states' rights v. federal laws. In other words, if the Roe decision was ever overturned, then abortion issues would be returned to the states to decide in a democratic process--one in which we all would have a say.
So, if the residents of Oklahoma, for argument's sake, voted against abortion clinics in their state then that's what THEY want. If the residents of New Jersey vote for them, they remain. Right? I truly believe here in NY, we don't have to worry about this issue being changed, but should we be in panic mode with this issue anyway?
Please clarify!
b/c I don't think it's a matter of federal OR state right.
I think that as a WOMAN, I should care just as much about My personal right to choose (I would NOT, under penalty of MY OWN DEATH, abort a child) as I do about Sally Shoemakers in Wichita, KS.
I don't want Sally to have to go to some backwoods butcher to get an abortion b/c 52% of the population of KS voted AGAINST abortion.
as it stands now...we are SELF regulating. we have the opportunity to apply our OWN PERSONAL moral code to our OWN life...and we let others do the same.
that is what Roe v. Wade means to me.
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:40 PM |
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MrsRbk
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Ophelia
b/c I don't think it's a matter of federal OR state right.
I think that as a WOMAN, I should care just as much about My personal right to choose (I would NOT, under penalty of MY OWN DEATH, abort a child) as I do about Sally Shoemakers in Wichita, KS.
I don't want Sally to have to go to some backwoods butcher to get an abortion b/c 52% of the population of KS voted AGAINST abortion.
as it stands now...we are SELF regulating. we have the opportunity to apply our OWN PERSONAL moral code to our OWN life...and we let others do the same.
that is what Roe v. Wade means to me.
I couldn't agree more!
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:42 PM |
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Eireann
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Ophelia
b/c I don't think it's a matter of federal OR state right.
I think that as a WOMAN, I should care just as much about My personal right to choose (I would NOT, under penalty of MY OWN DEATH, abort a child) as I do about Sally Shoemakers in Wichita, KS.
I don't want Sally to have to go to some backwoods butcher to get an abortion b/c 52% of the population of KS voted AGAINST abortion.
as it stands now...we are SELF regulating. we have the opportunity to apply our OWN PERSONAL moral code to our OWN life...and we let others do the same.
that is what Roe v. Wade means to me.
I totally hear what you're saying!!
However, Sally probably only has 2 clinics to turn to in all of Kansas (and that's WITH Roe as it stands now)--she may need to turn to desperate measures after all. I'm sure there are many states like this. How can we solve that problem and is there even a solution?
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:55 PM |
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doormouse
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Just something to think about:
We've had a pro-life president for the past 8 years.
We've had a conservative majority in the Supreme Court for many years.
Republicans held the majority in the House and Senate until recently.
And abortion is STILL legal in this country.
Abortion is a hot button topic like the death penaltly. They are topics that get people all riled up, but ultimately little changes. I think I can say with some conviction that abortion will never be outlawed in this country. Frankly, the issues that matter in this election are the ecomony and foreign policy. The abortion issue is just a distration, not because it isn't an important issue (it is) but because it isn't something that can or will be changed anytime soon.
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| Posted 9/3/08 3:55 PM |
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wannabemom
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by IrishLass
Posted by wannabemom
I think this woman is totally messed up. She lacks ethics, really. Her few political stands are rather destructive (anti-environmental, pro-gun/hunting), and frankly her personal life seems a bit messed up as well (naming an innocent baby Trig??? That whole scandal about abusing her power and inappropriately firing her sibbling's ex-spouse)
I hate to say it, I also am rather  about the fact that her teen was so uneducated with birthcontrol and proper safe behavior that she got pregnant and is going to have a shotgun wedding soon. (not to mention that her mom apparently was in a similar situation when she was young).
combine that with her complete lack of any tangiable experience, and you have a VP candidate that rivals quale. 
She comes from a rural part of a state where hunting is a way of life. So, yes, she's a member of the NRA and she hunts. That doesn't mean these are "destructive". Let's just say the meat that is under the saran wrap at the supermarket that is being eaten doesn't get there in a nice way, KWIM. What is more destructive?
And as far as her parenting skills...well, we don't know what she instructed her daughter to do or not do, if the daughter followed her advice, or the birth control failed, as it does. She did however raise an 18 year old son that volunteered for the army knowing he'd end up in the big sand box. I don't know him, but that's a very mature decision for an 18 year old.
But I'm not voting for her to be on the cover of Parenting Magazine.
Vote for her or against her based on her politics, on whether she would make a great leader. Don't vote on the bits of news you are receiving about her parentling. No one has ever questioned the parenting skills of Bill CLinton when he took over the White House or Barack Obama. And George Bush (2nd one)'s twins made mistakes, drinking underage,etc...he was re-elected. It has nothing to do with what kind of President he is.
I appreciate your concern on what guides my personal voting decisions.... but frankly, your command is a bit out of line, and presumes my opinions are easily manipulated by the morons of the media and their gossip.
None the less, I'll address your concerns and reassure you that this woman is soooo low on the radar as far as I'm concerned I couldn't care less. yes, she's the GOP VP pick, but frankly, the head of the ticket is so off base from my values I would never vote for him. (The GOP position on taxation, the iraq war, the economy, our insurmountable federal debt, and energy policy are all severely skewed from my personal positions, and it is these issues, not either party's campaign rhetoric, nor any cable news hack, that guides my decisions.)
Frankly, abortion rights never factors into my voting decisions. I see it for what it is... a wedge issue used to get the extremists in voting booths like lemmings.
I'm merely got sucked into this thread, this topic, and the cable news coverage becuase I was perplexed yesterday why he chose such an underqualified unknown. (I suspected it was as base and insulting as 'I gotta nominate a woman becuase all women, especially former hilllary voters, will ignore all policy positions and will vote for any uterus they see' ) I was simultaneously stunned at her numerous personal negative charateristics that might turn-off a 'moral values-voter'......
As for my admission that I hate to admit that I don't think highly of teen pregnancy that runs for generations in a family... I know it's not popular, but it IS my honest opinion. I personally doubt this unfortunate scenario is due to the remote likelyhood of birthconrtol failure. I DO suspect that it is due to the fact that mom didn't teach her child about proper birthcontrol, becuase she DOES follow the belief of 'just say no to premarital sex'. It makes sense.
Is it speculative? Sure! Do I appologise for this logical personal conclusion of that scenario? heck no. Do I think it's true? yep! will it affect my voting? nope. She never had a chance as far as my vote was concerned.....
I know it's not popular, but it is JMO....
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:02 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by doormouse
Just something to think about:
We've had a pro-life president for the past 8 years.
We've had a conservative majority in the Supreme Court for many years.
Republicans held the majority in the House and Senate until recently.
And abortion is STILL legal in this country.
Abortion is a hot button topic like the death penaltly. They are topics that get people all riled up, but ultimately little changes. I think I can say with some conviction that abortion will never be outlawed in this country. Frankly, the issues that matter in this election are the ecomony and foreign policy. The abortion issue is just a distration, not because it isn't an important issue (it is) but because it isn't something that can or will be changed anytime soon.
actually, they are kind of split down the middle, with Justice Kennedy as a conservative swing voter...and he and justice O'Connor before him have been the crucial votes in cases regarding abortion and Roe v. Wade for years.
one more conservative vote is all it takes.
as we sit. the Court has been taking a more and more conservative bend towards abortion and have been more lenient on abortion restrictions.
it IS a real possibility.
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:06 PM |
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Linda1003
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Linda
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by doormouse
Just something to think about:
We've had a pro-life president for the past 8 years.
We've had a conservative majority in the Supreme Court for many years.
Republicans held the majority in the House and Senate until recently.
And abortion is STILL legal in this country.
Abortion is a hot button topic like the death penaltly. They are topics that get people all riled up, but ultimately little changes. I think I can say with some conviction that abortion will never be outlawed in this country. Frankly, the issues that matter in this election are the ecomony and foreign policy. The abortion issue is just a distration, not because it isn't an important issue (it is) but because it isn't something that can or will be changed anytime soon.
 Bravo!!! I hate the hot buttom topics!!!! They mean little!!! They won't change!!! Economy, education, International affairs...that's what should be discussed.
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:10 PM |
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Linda1003
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Linda
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
As for my admission that I hate to admit that I don't think highly of teen pregnancy that runs for generations in a family... I know it's not popular, but it IS my honest opinion. I personally doubt this unfortunate scenario is due to the remote likelyhood of birthconrtol failure. I DO suspect that it is due to the fact that mom didn't teach her child about proper birthcontrol, becuase she DOES follow the belief of 'just say no to premarital sex'. It makes sense.
-------------------------------------------------------
Just fyi...Obama was born to a teen age mother.
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:14 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Linda1003
As for my admission that I hate to admit that I don't think highly of teen pregnancy that runs for generations in a family... I know it's not popular, but it IS my honest opinion. I personally doubt this unfortunate scenario is due to the remote likelyhood of birthconrtol failure. I DO suspect that it is due to the fact that mom didn't teach her child about proper birthcontrol, becuase she DOES follow the belief of 'just say no to premarital sex'. It makes sense.
-------------------------------------------------------
Just fyi...Obama was born to a teen age mother.
she said "runs for generations" and unless he has a child we don't know about, he broke the "tradition" by waiting until adulthood to have children.
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:15 PM |
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Linda1003
love my 2 boys
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Linda
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Oh ok.. so if it's more than one generation it's a problem that we need to be judgemental about..but when its the one time ..it's just a silly mistake.gotcha
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:17 PM |
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Kara
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by doormouse
Just something to think about:
We've had a pro-life president for the past 8 years.
We've had a conservative majority in the Supreme Court for many years.
Republicans held the majority in the House and Senate until recently.
And abortion is STILL legal in this country.
Abortion is a hot button topic like the death penaltly. They are topics that get people all riled up, but ultimately little changes. I think I can say with some conviction that abortion will never be outlawed in this country. Frankly, the issues that matter in this election are the ecomony and foreign policy. The abortion issue is just a distration, not because it isn't an important issue (it is) but because it isn't something that can or will be changed anytime soon.
actually, they are kind of split down the middle, with Justice Kennedy as a conservative swing voter...and he and justice O'Connor before him have been the crucial votes in cases regarding abortion and Roe v. Wade for years.
one more conservative vote is all it takes.
as we sit. the Court has been taking a more and more conservative bend towards abortion and have been more lenient on abortion restrictions.
it IS a real possibility.
I have posted about this before, but I really encourage people to do some research to understand exactly what Roe v. Wade says and stands for. It's not as easy as "Roe v. Wade means abortion is legal. Overturning it means abortion would be illegal." That's not even close to being accurate or total information (and I don't have enough time to go into details...) I just encourage everyone to do some research on this issue. Heck, I may have posted it here before...
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:18 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Kara
I have posted about this before, but I really encourage people to do some research to understand exactly what Roe v. Wade says and stands for. It's not as easy as "Roe v. Wade means abortion is legal. Overturning it means abortion would be illegal." That's not even close to being accurate or total information (and I don't have enough time to go into details...) I just encourage everyone to do some research on this issue. Heck, I may have posted it here before...
thanks. I'll look in my file cabinet. cuz like...I have tons of files on it. for real.
ftr, I think it needs to be simplified. I don't expect everyone to understand the political system OR the system of the Supreme Court.
I also don't sit with the idea that people DON"T understand the meaning of it.
Message edited 9/3/2008 4:30:33 PM.
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| Posted 9/3/08 4:28 PM |
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maybebaby
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
To answer the question about how important the subject of abortion is in voting...as someone who is pro life, I have to say it does not influence me much.
I feel pro life because of my OWN convictions and values. I happen to believe that it is wrong/immoral and that we as humans should protect unborn life instead of ending it. HOWEVER i completely realize not eveyone views this subject the same way. And I have tried to put myself into the shoes of a woman with no money, no support system, etc who would be in a terrible situation should she have a baby. And I do realize that there are desperate awful situations out there and I have never walked in those shoes. In my mind it still doesn't make it RIGHT but to someone else, they just view it differently.
I can do my own piece in helping with crisis pregnancies..abortions will always happen and I realize that. Legal or illegal, they will happen. I look for a candidate that is more interested in our economy, ending war, and if they are pro choice, I look to see how they will go about reducing the # of abortions necessary....through education/assistance for women (if that makes sense).
Sorry to be long winded but this is how I feel.
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| Posted 9/3/08 5:07 PM |
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donegal419
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K
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by lipglossjunky73
But a hard core hunter... This makes no sense to me.....
honestly, i love animals just as much as the next person, but there is a HUGE difference between killing a moose in the wild for food then killing a baby.
Abortion has such huge ramifications on all of us. you can't compare the too, IMO.
and yes, I am adamantly pro-life, and no, I am not a vegetarian.
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| Posted 9/3/08 5:33 PM |
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JenniferEver
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Kara
I have posted about this before, but I really encourage people to do some research to understand exactly what Roe v. Wade says and stands for. It's not as easy as "Roe v. Wade means abortion is legal. Overturning it means abortion would be illegal." That's not even close to being accurate or total information (and I don't have enough time to go into details...) I just encourage everyone to do some research on this issue. Heck, I may have posted it here before...
thanks. I'll look in my file cabinet. cuz like...I have tons of files on it. for real.
ftr, I think it needs to be simplified. I don't expect everyone to understand the political system OR the system of the Supreme Court.
I also don't sit with the idea that people DON"T understand the meaning of it.
As far as I understand, Roe v. Wade is more about privacy rights than abortion and overturning it would open another can of worms. I don't understand it THAT well and all of the ramifications, which is part of the reason why I am not for or against.
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| Posted 9/3/08 8:13 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
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Jennifer
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by maybebaby
To answer the question about how important the subject of abortion is in voting...as someone who is pro life, I have to say it does not influence me much.
I feel pro life because of my OWN convictions and values. I happen to believe that it is wrong/immoral and that we as humans should protect unborn life instead of ending it. HOWEVER i completely realize not eveyone views this subject the same way. And I have tried to put myself into the shoes of a woman with no money, no support system, etc who would be in a terrible situation should she have a baby. And I do realize that there are desperate awful situations out there and I have never walked in those shoes. In my mind it still doesn't make it RIGHT but to someone else, they just view it differently.
I can do my own piece in helping with crisis pregnancies..abortions will always happen and I realize that. Legal or illegal, they will happen. I look for a candidate that is more interested in our economy, ending war, and if they are pro choice, I look to see how they will go about reducing the # of abortions necessary....through education/assistance for women (if that makes sense).
Sorry to be long winded but this is how I feel.
I agree completely!
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| Posted 9/3/08 8:13 PM |
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chelle
It's a Good Life
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Isn't it obvious?
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by Ophelia
this is something I find almost laughable about anyone that would call themselves "pro life" but is a capital punishment fan AND a gun an card toting member of the NRA.
it makes NO sense logically, but she feels righteous enough not only to BE a walking contradiction, but to also ask (and perhaps command by law) people to adhere to her contradictory beliefs.
especially since one of the arguments the NRA uses is the argument of protections...if we took that a step further...this woman could KILL someone that broke into her house...she could shoot them dead and feel justified...
but she will be DAMNED if she will allow ME to terminate MY pregnancy if that is MY choice...b/c a life is a life.
riddle me that.
I like how you put this!
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| Posted 9/3/08 8:15 PM |
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Posted by donegal419
Posted by lipglossjunky73
But a hard core hunter... This makes no sense to me.....
honestly, i love animals just as much as the next person, but there is a HUGE difference between killing a moose in the wild for food then killing a baby.
Abortion has such huge ramifications on all of us. you can't compare the too, IMO.
and yes, I am adamantly pro-life, and no, I am not a vegetarian.
again, not to rehash, its not comparing fetus and moose. Its someone in the name of God saying one life is worth more than another's. If we are bringing God into it, its not a human's decision to make, and we have the audacity to do that in the name of God.
IF we are using the God stance in the whole "Pro life" argument.... Its one thing to feed an animal to our children so they don't go to bed hungry.
Its another to say - eh, I'm stronger, I've got the gun, let us chase down some wolves and show them who's boss.....
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| Posted 9/3/08 8:16 PM |
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tommy2
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Member since 3/08 193 total posts
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Tommy
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Re: ok.. Palin is pro-life...
Bristol Palin is better qualified than Barack Obama to be president in atleast one respect: Figuring out when a baby gets human rights is apparently not above her paygrade
Obama on Abortion
FF to 1:32
No wonder why the Democrats hate her:
Palin is raising five children without help from the government,and she is in favor of controlled government spending and lowering taxes.
And to compare pro-life a.k.a [anti abortion] with capital punishment is regodam_diculous. Seriously, no really seriously comparing the scum of the earth with an unborn child AWESOME
And to Ophelia since you like to bring up the old and new testament. I'm pretty sure Jesus is against Abortion.
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| Posted 9/3/08 9:10 PM |
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